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April 7th, 2009
10:17 AM ET

Commentary: Muslim world "likes" Obama's words

CNN's Kiran Chetry speaks to Hisham Melhem of Al-Arabiya about President Obama's message to Muslims.
CNN's Kiran Chetry speaks to Hisham Melhem of Al-Arabiya about President Obama's message to Muslims.

President Obama was in Turkey today. It was the last leg of his five-nation European tour and his first trip to a Muslim country since taking office. During the stop he sent a message to the world that the U.S. will never be at war with Islam.

“I am personally committed to a new chapter of American engagement. We can't afford to talk past one another, to focus only on our differences or to let the walls of mistrust go up around us.”

So how is the Muslim community reacting to the president’s visit? Hisham Melhem, Washington Bureau Chief for global Arab language network Al-Arabiya, spoke to Kiran Chetry Tuesday on CNN’s “American Morning.”

Kiran Chetry: In all, how was our president received in the muslim world?

Hisham Melhem: Well, judging by the positive headlines, by the live coverage that my network and others gave his speech yesterday in front of the Turkish parliament, the Muslim world likes what the president has been saying. Not only in Turkey, but since he was elected. And I think his words and, more importantly, his actions, have resonated positively throughout the Arab world and the Muslim world. People realize that there is a new tone, that there is a new content, that there is a new language. Gone are the combustible words that President Bush used to use like Islamo [sic] Fascism. Now the new president talks about engagement, he talks about partnership, he talks about respect, mutual interests. President Bush seemed to many Arabs and Muslims every time he talks to them as if he is talking down to them, as if he is lecturing them. This new president is trying to engage them as potential partners in the fight against the real enemy of the United States and the real enemy of these governments which is al Qaeda. The president doesn't talk about the war on terror in general because the war on terror is a war on a tactic. He has a well-defined enemy called al Qaeda. He doesn't clump like, President Bush, all Islamic groups. He focuses only on al Qaeda. All of these things, they are nuances and people recognizes nuances and they appreciate that.

Chetry: I want to ask you about that, because there are some who criticized exactly what you are saying is a good thing, saying he gave a pass perhaps to groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood and other groups that have used terror and are considered terrorist groups by our government.

Melhem: Look. President Bush, the way he framed the issue, the war on terrorism created a conceptual muddle and he confused a lot of people. When you fight an enemy, you have to define your enemy very well and President Obama is trying to do that. It doesn't do any service to the United States’ effort to defeat al Qaeda, to keep al Qaeda in a defensive posture, when you lump together all of these groups. Yes, it is true, the United States labels Hamas as a terrorist group and Hezbollah and others, but the United States is not engaging in the battlefields against Hamas. We are engaging al Qaeda on the battlefield in Afghanistan and in Pakistan. And if you want to succeed, you need Muslim allies and one way of doing that is to define your enemy very well. The United States essentially is not saying Hamas is our enemy. The United States is essentially saying what the Israeli government is saying, we will talk to Hamas if Hamas do A, B, C. It's a conditional position vis-à-vis Hamas. There is room for the United States to say we don't like Hamas and that is America's right. At the same time, you cannot classify Hamas the way you classify al Qaeda. It's al Qaeda that visited us with their destructive deed on that fine morning in September 2001. Not Hamas. As much as we don't like Hamas as a group that is pursuing certain policies that is not to the liking of the United States government.

Chetry: It appears there is still a major distrust from Americans here in the United States. This is the quote on the poll. Should the U.S. trust Muslim allies as much as other allies? The results, surprisingly, were pretty split. 51% saying yes, but nearly half saying no. Why does there seem to still be this mistrust on the part of the American people? What can be done to change that?

Melhem: Well, education, engagement, accepting the Muslim world as not necessarily this strange other but a potential partner. I was not very surprised because of the impact and the legacy of 9/11, the misunderstanding generated by the war on terrorism, the invasion of Iraq, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, all of these things that created enmity in the Arab world and Muslim world and misunderstanding in the United States. There is unfamiliarity in America with the Muslim world and there is ignorance. Let's be blunt. I don't expect the average American to be an expert on Islamic jurisprudence but at least one would like to get through those negative images instead of typical images of Muslims. And here I must add there is a role for the Muslim world. I mean, now the president could look at Muslim leaders in the eye and say, I've done certain things that you wanted me to do, closing down Guantanamo, I’m getting out of Iraq. I sent a positive message to the Iranian people. I'm sending George Mitchell to mediate Arab-Israeli peacemaking but I want you to deal with the problem that afflicts your society. Which is essentially a problem of governance of which you as Muslim leaders and Muslim elites and Muslim ruling classes are responsible for. So there is a role here for the United States to be blunt and honest with the Muslim leaders and Muslim world, as well as a responsibility for the Muslim leaders and Muslim elites to fix the ailments that afflict their societies.


Filed under: Islam • Politics
soundoff (526 Responses)
  1. SF

    Well homosexuality is a birth defect or a mental disorder at least in you case it appears

    April 13, 2009 at 8:48 pm |
  2. Dern

    I'm not concerned about insulting you, SF, as you and I have established a mutual lack of respect. As for religious legislators proposing laws to appease your imaginary friend, that is wrong. (Many of our founding fathers were deists, not christians. Look it up.) If something is logically right or wrong, that's all that matters. How it affects people and their freedom to pursue a happy life, without preventing others from doing the same. Fake deities do not enter into the picture. Do you refrain from committing murder solely because you think your god would frown upon it, or because you fear is ridiculously cruel and unecessary creation called Hell? Or do you refrain from it because you just know it is wrong to end someone else's life? Morals can exist without fear of eternal punishment from an invisible being, you know. Those of us without religion are not automatically without values. We use our brains. It's really quite simple.

    And that's the way it must remain in the US. We are a free country. If religion runs contrary to logic (as in the case of gay marriage - all objections to it are rooted in homophobic religion), then logic must prevail in a free society. Otherwise, you are saying whichever religion's followers are in the majority are right in making laws based on whatever their imaginary friend tells them. Would you want to live in a country where all the women are made to wear the niqab, just because Allah or Mohammed or whomever supposedly wants it that way?

    This is the danger of having muslims in power, and having them grow in numbers here in the US. They tend toward theocractic laws, and the christians are bad enough in that area already. I would like you and your kind to keep your superstitious nonsense where it belongs (in your cult houses) and leave the lawmaking to the secular, rational minds. It is my hope that our president feels the same way, so it is particularly troubling to see him bow before one of their filthy kings.

    April 11, 2009 at 8:53 pm |
  3. SF

    It is equally as insulting for you to say that god doesn't exist and to descibe worship as you have. Though I do agree with all you said about Islam. The majority of our legislators are religious to some extent and so laws are proposed and passed based on their and our values which to some extent is baseb on religious beliefs. So my point that the separation of church and state is an illusion

    April 11, 2009 at 3:45 pm |
  4. Dern

    Marry your dog? Gay marriage has nothing to do with that, and it's insulting to make such a comparison. Though I suppose you would gladly marry and fornicate with your dog if your imaginary friend jehovah told you to, right? But I have definitely digressed.

    The point I am making is that Obama is the president of our COUNTRY. Not our CHURCH. America is not a theocracy. We have a separation of church and state here, and government is not supposed to be subject to religion. I would prefer him to address the leaders of other nations in governing terms, not in religious ones. But the muslims are even worse than the christians in tying the two together.

    And that's a huge problem when it comes to relating to them as soverign nations. You can have millions of people who all claim membership in the same religion, who all have the same holy book, and who all split up into little sub-cults because they can't all read the same book and agree that it says the same thing. These bibles and holy books are crummy instruction manuals, since it seems as though there is no clear, single way to interpret them, even among those poor zombies who so desperately want to.

    That kind of ambiguity is useless when it comes to running a nation. We need clear laws and expectations that cover everyone, regardless of interpret-it-however-you-want scriptures, and not just for those who bow down on their knees a hundred times a day talking to an invisible being who they can't even prove exists in the first place. Or those who walk into their cult buildings and pretend to eat the flesh and drink the skin of their magic savior, and then say other people with other imaginary friends have strange rituals.

    The spread of islam is the spread of theocracy, and I sincerely hope that our president will make it clear that we will never be part of that idiotic mindset.

    April 10, 2009 at 7:45 pm |
  5. SF

    Dern – I didn't mean to offend you and I certainly am not patronizing you on one way or another as I don't know you from adam and could really give two cents what you may think. Can I marry my dog? Look this is way off topic

    April 10, 2009 at 11:02 am |
  6. Dern

    No, SF. America is not a christian theocracy. Marriage is a legal union as well as a religious one, so if straights can legally marry, gays must be able to as well. I'm not interested in being able to say, "My boyfriend asked me to civilly unite with him!" Do you have a problem with an opposite sex atheist couple being allowed to legally marry? After all, they aren't members of your cult, are they? Religious-based denial of marriage rights is bigotry, and a good example of how stupid people become when they believe in their imaginary friends. If the christians want to own the word marriage, they need to propose that marriage become a religious ceremony only. All legally recognized unions, gay or straight, would have to be "civil unions." Marriage would only apply to ridiculous religious rituals, like the mormons' idea of "celestial marriage." See how stupid that sounds? Marriage is a legal concept in this non-theocracy, so don't patronize me and your two "very best friends" by saying we should not be allowed to sully the term "marriage." You're no better than the bullheaded muslims with that kind of thinking, man.

    April 10, 2009 at 10:32 am |
  7. yusuf

    woow i see that things i have writeen are not displayed here anymore.... freedom of speech?? ugh?? :-(( anyway...

    as i last message: Even though you want to show muhammed as a
    ""child porn"" star .. he is who he is....

    i have written more than enough to explain myself... thanks for the discuss and see you guys :=))

    April 10, 2009 at 9:00 am |
  8. SF

    I agree with you 100% on most of what you said. I am a christian and a republican. However on social issues I am moderate. Two of my very best friends are gay and having lived in Miami for the majority of my life, I have had exposure to all types of people of various nationalities and races.

    Here is the thing, a marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Now I believe gay couples should be afforded the same inheritance, insurance benefit, hospital visitation rights and all other rights that straight married couples have. Having said that, we can't expand the definition of "marriage". I am all for civil unions though, does that work for you?

    April 10, 2009 at 8:29 am |
  9. Dern

    I had a christian acquaintance tell me that most of her kind do not have any problem with gay people. I pointed out that gay marriage bans have passed in every state where they were on the ballot, most by a very large majority. The majority of those voters were christian, so obviously, the majority of christians DO have a problem with gays. Since 9/11, I have heard many people say islam is a peaceful religion, and that muslims are good people who have gotten a bad reputation due to the actions of a small number of their own kind.

    Yet, it's the muslim countries that criminalize homosexuality. It's the muslim countries that have the most reluctance to support a UN resolution against criminal laws against homosexuality. It's the muslim countries where the penalty for being gay (or sometimes, just being suspected of being gay) is the harshest - sometimes, even death.

    Yeah, I don't have any warm feelings for the muslims.

    These are also the same people who have the best chance, the greatest opportunity, to disrupt and eliminate these terrorist cells who plan to attack us, and who plan to attack other non-muslims. Yet, these attacks happen, they continue. Where are the majority peacenik muslims? Why, if they SO OUTNUMBER these violent animals, have they not been able to stop them?

    Or is it the fact that they do not so outnumber them? Is it that they do not really disagree with them in such large numbers?

    I don't know the answer, but it looks very much like the "majority of muslims are peaceful" idea is about as true as the "most christians do not hate gays" idea. I call BULL.

    Religion can benefit humanity, but it also represents the death of independent thought. The major theocracies in the modern world are muslim. I don't want to live in a theocracy, and I am distrustful of any group of people who would like to see them flourish in the 21st century.

    While I am sure there are many lovely, decent muslims out there, even some small number who are not disgusted by my homosexuality, or who would be very upset to know that anyone would want to kill me in the name of allah, I remain very distrustful of them, and I feel no sympathy for them when they are portrayed as primitive, backwater, violent beasts. I don't know why our president has to show such deference to them, and it worries me that he feels it is necessary.

    April 10, 2009 at 12:00 am |
  10. SF

    Zoe – you are lost. You are so ridiculous to say that rywanda happened because what was said on the radio. And sadly there are plenty of you around to misinform the sheeple. And unfortunately there are few that think like me but the numbers are growing. But at least you are interesting. Maybe we can be friends on myspace or facebook.

    PS Rush is an idiot

    April 9, 2009 at 8:45 pm |
  11. AH

    SF – I am by no means condoning child marriage. It is not for society today and I personally think it is wrong. In 7th century Arabia this was a typical practice among Arabs, Jews and Christians. So do not single out this practice as being condoned by only Islam. As far as her age, yeah she was extremely too young in my 21st century western mind. Oh, and Christians see Mary as being the "ideal woman" due to her virtuousness. Depending on the source, shhe could have been anywhere between 12 and 16 as far as when she gave birth. I do not hear you complaining to God for having such a young girl give birth. What do you think if you met a young pregnant teenage girl today? You would think that she was too young. Well guess what, 2000 years ago it was not and would hope you would give the same open minded consideration for Islam. I don't hear you complaining about Christianity.

    As far as these stories in the news you are referring to, yes I find them apalling. But you seem to be missing the point that many other people on this posting are trying to make. That is that you are judging a whole religion based on the horrific actions of a sub-group. Oh, and do not confuse honour killings with a religion, that is cultural, and it is in many cultures. Islam does not tell families to kill their children, period. People who are doing these things are doing for cultural reasons, not religious. Christins, Hindus, and Jews have all been guilty of it. Lets face it, th media feeds off of showing these things on tv or writing articles on it. There are 1 billion people in India and you choose to use one horrible story about a girl to illustrate your point. Well your point can not be made. Did you know about the Hindu boys and girls that are killed for the same reasons? These things happen in lots of places SF and not because of Islam.

    Oh, and about Pakistan. Would you want your children going to school when there is a war going on outside your window? Did you know that even with the closing of schools in western Pakistan by the Taleban there are still many schools for girls open and still more being built in that region? Did you know there had been growing support for girls to go to school there and that for the first time girls are getting an education and becoming professionals? And this is with the support of local Mullah. Not all Mullah are the same you know. You see, I think you read these news items and then come to a conclusion without knowing other issues involved.

    As far as your references to Zoe about terrorism and 911 , Madrid. Yeah those people were horribleywrong, and yes, they did it in the name of religion. 911 was a horrible day and those things should never happen. But you know what. Doing things in the name of ideology is just as dangerous, just ask the Iraqis and the tens of thousands of innocent people they lost. That is their 911 times 20 or more. Blame the terrorists, not Islam. Islam is not the reason, it is their screwed up minds. And I know what you are going to say. Something along the lines of "the Koran tells Muslims to kill non-muslims and to go to war, and all that." Well actually, I ask you to go Read the Qu'ran in its entirety. Do not read a book by someone who wrote about it. Do not just go to a specific page and find one line and tell us that this is what Islam tells you to do. Read the whole thing. Then you will see what Islam represents and that it is about peace and forgiveness, very similar to the Bible.

    Try to be more positive SF. The more you push someone, they will want to push back. Try to see the good in people and not the bad.

    April 9, 2009 at 8:30 pm |
  12. Zaheen Amatullah

    Ok SF here we go: I am only parting this up hear not because I don’t respect the Bible- but because you are being disrespectful. The other side of the story must be told. The Holly Koran might have passages that if taken out of contact can be used for evil, however, if you study that times and keep in mind that Arabic has many words that we don’t have and if you read it in Arabic and understand what you are reading one will know that it is only under dire times that you are allowed to kill (they are killing you or attacking you)

    Ezek: 9:5 And the LORD said “ Go though the city and smite: let not our eye spare, neither have your pity SLAY UTTERLY OLD AND YOUNG BOTH MAIDS AND LITTLE CHILDREN AND WOMAN

    Num 31:1 And the Lord said unto Moses “Avenge the children of the Mid an ites They warred against the Mid I an ites,” as the Lord commanded Moses and they slay all the males And they Took all women as captives and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle and all their flocks and all there goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt and kill their goodly castles with fire

    Moses said “Have you saved all the women alive? NOW KILL EVERY MALE AMONG THE LITTLE ONES AND KILL EVERY woman that has know a man by lying with him, bu all the young girls who have not know a man by lying ith him KEEP ALIVE FOR YOURSELVES

    JUDG 21:10 the congregation of Benjamin sent twelve thousand of their bravest men and commanded them “ Go and SMITE the inhabitants of Ja besh gil ead WITH THE EDGE OF THE SWORD ALSO THE WOMEN AND THE LITTLE ONES EVERY MALE AND EVERY WOMAN THAT HAS LAIN WITH A MALE YOU SHALL UTTERLY DESTROY

    Deut 20:10 When you draw near to a city to fight against it, OFFER TERMS OF PEACE to it. And if its ANSWER TO YOU IS PEACE and it opens to you, then all the PEOPLE WHO ARE FOUND IN IT SHALL DO FOCED LABOUR FOR YOU AND SHALL SERVE YOU.

    But if it makes no peace with you then you shall besiege it YOU SHALL PUT ALL ITS MALES TO THE SWORD but the women and the little ones the cattle and every thing else in the city all its spoil you shall take as booty for yourselves and you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies.

    April 9, 2009 at 8:30 pm |
  13. Zoe Smith

    It is funny, u say that the Muslims (us them thinking) are out to hart me. Hummm.. the Nazis said the same thing as you have said- we are protecting you- the Jews will hart u.

    The differences between what you are saying and this is that a small part of the people in the Arabs whom distort the religion of Islam want to do genocide to us; IE- Al Quida. They also don’t like anyone that is Islamic and don’t follow their view. They are no different from the Nazis, Khmer Rouge or any of the other like them. They, including Taliban, take advantage of bad times and use it to gain control, spread fear, and kill. It does not matter what religion, or ethnic group you are, just like genocide, every group- including religious groups, are guilty of this at sometime of another.

    The differences between you and the Muslims,- or should I say the similarities between you, Al-Quida, Khemer Rouge and the Nazis, is that YOU LUMP ALL OF ONE GROUP( THE MUSLIMS INTO THE SAME GROUP-INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT THE SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE DOING THE BAD ACTS- THEN DO DEHUMANIZATION

    Also, I was in EGYPT LIVING WITH EGYPTIONS LIKE AN EGYPTIONS ONLY 3 WEEKS BEFOR 9-11, I don’t recall anyone trying to hart me, despite the fact that my Irish skin stuck out. In fact they LOVED US. They also had a lot of TROOPS WITH GUNS AROUND- THEY WERE TERRIFIED OF THE SAME PEOPLE AS US.

    Remember 9-11, how can I forget it. I live in a commuter town- that is MANY people in my town, and the towns next to me jump on a train, take one hour trip and end up in NYC to work. When I was in school that day, 50%-80% of my classmates where terrified, and rightly so, that their parents were killed. My county lost about 130 people on 9-11, and that is not taking in account of those that were injured, lost their jobs, or were going to suffer from PTSD due to what they saw (ie- their friends being thrown out of windows)

    I am personally more terrified of the hate groups and drug gangs then the Al Qida- and keep in mind- what happens in NYC directly affects my home. They are more likely to strike the Al Qida.

    http://www.pbs.org/itvs/caughtinthecrossfire/factsheet.html

    Here are some quotes from PBS;
    “Although most Arabs are Muslim, most Muslims are not Arab. Only about 12 percent of Muslims worldwide are Arabs.”

    “n fact, there are more Muslims in Indonesia than in all Arab countries combined”

    A quick search on CIA World Fact book would show you that every where in the world, but the Americas have at lest on country that is manly Islamic. Only a small number of them- and then a small number of people in them do evil.

    Also, if you read what I wrote- I said that dehumanization comes BEFORE a genocide. Ones the genocide has happen, yea they are victims.

    I can tell NO ONE will make you think that you are wrong. I wish you would think out side of the box and stop listing to Rush. After all, Rwanda happened because of what was being said on the radio. However, I am giving the others that might read this blog the other side of the story, one that does not hate a group but gives blame to the few people that hate. You are sadly a lost cause, and I pray their are few of you out there.

    April 9, 2009 at 4:11 pm |
  14. SF

    Yusuf – Im tired of these counter agrguments. They are non responsive, just "well, look at this and look at that" to divert attention from what we are discussing. Muhammed was a vile person even by 7th century standards, yet he is the ideal man to muslims, one who should be used as an example for living one's life.

    Look, the crusades, all of them took place hunderds of years ago, and even still they were some what justified to free the holy land from muslim grasp. Moreover it was a reaction to the spread of the forceable spread of islam through europe. And the crusades were for the most part funded by wealthy christians

    Yes christans do kill and recently some dude killed his whole family right here in the usa, but that has nothing to do with being christian. Find it for me in the bible. Yet you will find justification and encouragment of such acts in the Quran. Also in this country, the US, there are laws against murder. We punish people like that. In muslim countries that is the law so don't describe those things as marginal events.

    And don't twist the truth, it is not some old fashioned saudis, it is the law of the land. How about my iranian example? Where they old fashioned too? No, it was a sentence passed down from the judge who tried her case.

    Look, lie to others all you want but don't lie to yourself

    April 9, 2009 at 4:08 pm |
  15. yusuf

    SF: İslam world is not only composed from some crazy old fashioned Saudis.. You're taking very marginal events..

    What about jobless people who kill their children and wife because they dont have enough money to make them live.. If you search a little bit you would see many cases in only US.. Don't try to show the marginal and CRIMINAL events as if they are "islamic traditions". If we talk about marginal things we would figure out many strange things in your society as well.

    PS: is It the same "God's will" which motivatied Christians to attack eastern societies in the most barbarian way namely crusader attacks which were sponsored by your Popes ?? Don't tell me about God's WILL !! First clean your own house and then ask me to clean MINE !!!!!!!!

    April 9, 2009 at 3:00 pm |
  16. SF

    AH – you are right. The old prophet married Aisha when she was six. For argument's sake, lets say it was for a peace deal. However, Aisha herself said the marriage was consummated when she was nine. This is the "ideal man." The biggest POS that I know wouldn't do that. Go and ask around at your mosque.

    Now lets talk about 21st century saudia arabia. Did you read the resent story of the Saudi man who owed his "best friend" some money, but couldn't pay, so he gave him her 11 year old daughter to marry. Look it up the case is in the courts.

    Did you hear the recent story of the old saudi lady that received a punishment of 70 lashes or so for meeting with a man who was like a son to her – he was bringing her bread. Well that didn't matter to the saudi immoral police not unless he was breast fed by her – look it up, this is required.

    Did you read the recent story of the 16 year old muslim girl in india who was set on fire by 4 muslim men for meeting with a boy.

    Did you read about the 16-year-old iranian girl, Atefeh Rajabi who in 2004 was executed in public by hanging for having premarital sex. Do you want me to tell you what happened to the dude.

    Did you read the stories of the taliban closing down girl's schools in their new home, the swat, in Pakistan.

    Sure, I know, I know, you will say well christians do or did such things, but I assure you that the fact that that is incidental. Muslims do this beleiving that this is all god's will

    It may not matter to you, but it matters to me. Would you let an old man bang your nine year old daughter? I wouldn't.

    April 9, 2009 at 1:05 pm |
  17. AH

    SF – I have some more things to say later. For now I DO need to say that you need to present all the evidence to your jury before anyone can make a decision. That is to say, the marriage between Mohammed and the young girl was part of a peace deal and the marriage was not consummated until later. This is 7th century Arabia we are talking about.

    April 9, 2009 at 10:24 am |
  18. SF

    Zoe Smith –
    I am opposed to Islam for the same reasons that I am opposed to Nazism, white supremacy, etc. How is islam any different to nazism? Ask yourself, who is doing all the killings and terrorist bombings? The nazis were wrong, period, the kkk and the like are wrong, period.

    Are you so sure that islam is not out to hurt you? Your argument makes as much since as if I said in the thirties, "oh, oh god, dont say such things about hitler, dont bring about the us against them mentality, oh, the madness". Whether you like it or not, islam sees them against us.

    Islam victims? Victims to what and whom? Right they are the victims of all the innocent people they blew up in 7/7, 9/11, madird, etc. Look at your three pronged pregenocide test above. Islam dehumanises nonmuslims, they blame us and they have the us/them mentality. But dont worry, I will protect you and your families from the threat of islam if it is ever necessary

    April 9, 2009 at 8:51 am |
  19. Zoe Smith

    I am a in the genocides and holocaust studies program,. One of my concepts in my study is the dehumanization of the victims. In this you do three things, dehumanization (call them anything but human, make them less then human) Blaming (making them a scapegoat for everything) and US/Them thinking. US/Them thinking is normal, however when combined with the other two it is deadly. US/Them thinking lets the US group (in this case- SF and the other that are writing hate) and the Them (the Muslims in this case) parts all the Them as being the same. If one is a bad apple, they all are. On the other hand when it is an US that is doing something wrong it is that person that is doing something wrong. This allows the US group to push the Them group to a distances an able to kill, even the children, with out guilt.

    DEHUMANIZATION, BLAMING AND US/THEM THINKING HAPPENS BEFOR EVERY GENOCIDE- IT BECOMES THE NORM OF THINKING!

    The Nazis believed and had most people believed that the Jews were out to harm them- that it is in their blood- that if you let them they will still your money rap your girls, kill your kids and other things.

    Hmm… SF, you are doing the something
    SF YOU ARE NO BETTER THEN A NAZI!
    If you keep going- and if you had the power- you would be no better then HITLLER of the KKK

    SF I hope you stop and think- do you really want the same type of thinking going on as the Nazis, or the Hutus that killed during Rwanda, Janjaweed or the KKK? I pray u stop

    April 9, 2009 at 5:47 am |
  20. mhoudine

    Don't be naïve , Obama is a sweet talker …I don't really trust him

    April 9, 2009 at 1:14 am |
  21. yusuf

    Dan Nelson,

    Dude, you dont need to be sorry, we are brothers which are trying to understand each other by giving information.. Which sharia ?? A dictators principles (or many) can't be the sharia. Also not in every muslim populated country there is any kind of sharia (i.e. Turkish Republic)

    About your 2nd article: please check the OIC (Organisation of the Islamic Conference)...

    There is no such an aim of islam to simply "kill" people..If there is a sick guy who is asking to kill innoncent people then that person is simply called a terrorist -and as an example- which its punishment in turkish law (which had been dervied from the Latin at about 1923) is prison until the end of life.. besides If you look at the world you would see who is killing who?? for their economic and politic SAKE....

    (As if you claim) If wars are relatied to only religion looking to history i see that Christianity didn't help you at 2 world wars which you have wasted each other.. I am not even talking about crusader attacks (was it for 13-14 times?)

    Dude you're making heavy racism by talking about a religions followers as if they are subhuman.. There are perfectly developed countries in the world which have muslim majority population. Also during the history there have been multi religion-multi language empires which lasted for many centuries.. (i.e. Ottoman Empire).

    The oldest document on "religious freedom" in the world history is the Ottoman Sultan Fatih Mehmet Khan's oath which brought religious freedom to Bosnian Franciscans issued on May 28 of 1463. In 1971, the United Nations published a translation of the document in all the official U.N. languages...

    Dude, i am not somebody who is trying to understand the world and the people through an identity. I dont claim that we Muslims are cooler guys then Christians or vice versa. What i am saying is humanity have some problems (and always had) and these problems won't be solved by being on one-side and dislike the other side.

    April 8, 2009 at 11:10 pm |
  22. SF

    I glad that you sit around on the interent all day, thank you for informing me. I am a civil rights attorney, I served in the Coast Guard, my father served in the CIA. How long did you serve in the military, patriot? Do tell...

    See the difference between christians that do "evil things" as you say and muslims that do the same is that when muslims do such things, acording to them, they are doing god's will, on the other hand, when christians do such things they are not doing god's will – it's all n the bible

    Now how could I have thought that I can reason with someone who worships a guy that slept with nine year olds Oh course I can't. Yours is the only reigion where the more "holy" you ae the more criminal and vile you become. Try doing the things muhammed did in any modern day civilized society and you will find that you are a criminal.

    See, your personal shots at me are cute but do nothing to refute anything Ive said. Now lets assume that the bible directs christians to kill others as you suggest, which of course it does not, and lets further assume that all other religions do the same – yet now back in reality, muslims are the only ones that act on such things.

    So you dont take it so personal. Lets imagine a hypothetical "religion" where the prophet slept with nine year olds, where he commanded that his followers kill jews, where the religion's deserters are to be killed, where they consider their kind and their religion superior to all others. How would you feel about the followers?

    That is no hypothetical you realise that dont you? That is islam.

    And look what is happening in Europe. Muslims dont want to assimilate, they dont respect the laws of their host countries, they only respect Sharia and hope to make it the law of the continent at some point. And before you go into your "have you been to europe, what do you know" nonsense, be advised that i studied comparative constitutional law, and EU in europe.

    You said in one of your postings that muslims gave women rights, and you and I know that that is completely laughable. So you mean to tell me that James Madision and Tom Jefferson, chirstians and athiests, and all the leaders in the west got their socia and moral sense from islam? That is quite jackalobian of you. Tell me who, when and where.

    Look people are judged by their associations

    Lastly, stating the truth about anything is not bashing. I urge you to go to real muslim leaders and discuss with them what islam is about, dont take it from me, what do I know. Then I want you to educate me

    April 8, 2009 at 8:54 pm |
  23. Dan Nelson

    To tell you the truth I don’t believe that any Muslim nation can work together for peace. It’s like what God had said about Ishmael and sons, they lived together with hostility towards their brothers. You see in most every Islamic country that they all have problems coming together for a consensus of how they should go forward in this 21st century. Most Muslims are split in their religious beliefs and many will fight and kill for the sake of Islam and their superiority over the rest of the world!

    April 8, 2009 at 5:34 pm |
  24. Dan Nelson

    Sorry yusuf I have misjudged you but does not sharia law infringe on peoples human rights?

    April 8, 2009 at 4:30 pm |
  25. 84rules

    When I hear the loudspeakers at Mecca, broadcasting for those pilgrims doing the Hajj, deliver a message of peace, understanding, respect for all other religions and steadfastly condemn terrorist actions of groups like al Qaeda, Hamas and Hizbollah, then and only then will I believe that the Muslim world is ready to undertake a relationship based on mutual respect.

    For right, now, I think the Muslim world sees in Barack Obama and his words a dupe who will be easily manipulated on the world scene.

    One of the reasons they hated Bush so much is because he was not so easily manipulated.

    April 8, 2009 at 2:35 pm |
  26. Samuel

    SF

    First of all, sorry for not spending my life in the internet, I had important things to do than to stare in the internet, or hating people.

    Second, I have the Quran as well. I don't know which kind of Quran you got, either its pretend or just pages from websites.

    Finally, that JIHAD WATCH you always go to is nothing but making you paranoid. If Muslims are truly are against this country, why are Islamic nations helping to fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the first place? Where is Osama Bin Laden's Jihad when the Majority of Muslims aren't participating?

    Hell, why are you even here, if you want to combat this threat go join the army, by going to Afganistan you'll meet Muslim Americans who is taking the bullets and sacrificing so that people like you can mock them in the internet. You don't care about them, obviously you rather stay alive and put them down in the internet.

    Oh

    "However, Muslims commit violent acts BECAUSE they are muslim. The Bible does not command us to do violence on others as the Quran does."

    So Christains never commited a crime, they are innocent? First of all, there is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt. Christains have commited the a number crimes, Even hitler mention he was doing gods work in exterminating jews? What about the Davidians who took hostages in TX? The Massacre in Bosina, Soviet Unions abuse in Eastern Asia? the so call "bad guys" were Christains.

    Who spend your life so much in fear and paranoia that you'll indirectly enjoying watching and believing in half credit sources, as if Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, and other terrorists are your idols. They are not, quit the nonesence and do something else. My suggestion is read William Faulkner's nobel prize speech and do something besides telling us how to hate muslims (don't give us BS that you don't hate muslims because I know in fact that you're doing it indirectly).

    April 8, 2009 at 1:15 pm |
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