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April 21st, 2009
09:41 AM ET

Ron Paul: Secession is American

CNN's Kiran Chetry speaks to Rep. Ron Paul about Texas' governor's secession suggestion.
CNN's Kiran Chetry speaks to Rep. Ron Paul about Texas' governor's secession suggestion.

For ten years, Texas was a sovereign territory before joining the United States in 1845. It’s the stuff of legends that the “Lone Star State” could end the ties with the U.S. if its constituents want it that way.

Texas Governor Rick Perry, who's been highly critical of President Obama's stimulus package, raised the possibility that his state may one day secede from the union.

“We’ve got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people - who knows what might come out of that,” Perry told reporters last week.

The governor isn't the only one suggesting secession is not out of the realm. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), a former presidential candidate, spoke with Kiran Chetry on CNN’s American Morning Tuesday.

Kiran Chetry: How serious is this secession talk?

Ron Paul: I don't think it's very serious. I don't think anybody called for secession, and I don't think the governor called for it. But he brings up an important issue. The biggest surprise to me was the outrage expressed over an individual who thinks along these lines, because I heard people say, well, this is treasonous and this was un-American. But don't they remember how we came in to our being? We used secession, we seceded from England. So it’s a very good principle. It’s a principle of a free society. It’s a shame we don’t have it anymore. I argue that if you had the principle of secession, our federal government wouldn't be as intrusive into state affairs and to me that would be very good.

We as a nation have endorsed secession all along. Think of all of the secession of the countries and the republics from the Soviet system. We were delighted. We love it. And yet we get hysterical over this just because people want to debate and defend the principle of secession, that doesn't mean they’re calling for secession. I think it's that restraining element of secession that would keep the federal government from doing so much. In our early history, they accepted the principles of secession all along.

Chetry: You said it's very American to talk about secession. It’s how we came into being. 13 colonies seceeded from the British. Are you likening the current situation to life under King George?

Paul: I think a lot of people are thinking that way. And I think that's what's important. People are angry. If we don't sense that, we don't know what's actually going on there. People are angry. I'm anticipating it will get a lot worse. When the dollar collapses and the federal government can't fulfill any of its promises, what if they send you dollars and they don't work. People aren’t going to have a violent secession; they’re just going to ignore the federal government because they will be inept. We'll be bringing our troops home and our empire will end. That's a different story. I think it's something we should talk about but we should institutionalize this principle. New England wanted to secede. No one challenged New England that it was unconstitutional in our early history.

Chetry: I want to move on to the bank bailouts. This is a source of a lot of contention. You've been opposed to them. Lately there have been some signs that perhaps it's working. Bank of America is turning a profit. Wells Fargo now saying they’re able to pay back the federal government and return some of that bailout money. In the end, could this have turned out to be the right move?

Paul: If a gangster steals money and he’s successful, you don't celebrate. Yeah they might be. This is just going to make the people angrier. They ripped us off, took all of this money, and now they’re making bundles? It's just an unfair system to penalize average people, inflate the currency and bring on another crisis and undermine the whole system.

So I would say a bank's success here and there is not necessarily something to celebrate. It's still pretty early. I don't think we're out of the woods yet to celebrate banks’ successes. What we have to realize is a lot of people stashed away a lot of money and took care of their bonuses and what not. You're not going to erase the anger that's come from that just because the bank made a profit. Like I say, it might make things worse.


Filed under: Controversy • Politics
soundoff (1,136 Responses)
  1. mark

    Have we forgotten that the last idiot president was from Texas. Maybe Texas's seccession would be a good thing!

    April 21, 2009 at 2:09 pm |
  2. Maverick

    The stars at night, are big and bright (clap clap) Deep in the Heart of Texas!!!

    You people have NO idea how great Texas is.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas

    April 21, 2009 at 2:09 pm |
  3. Craig

    for all the Texans that are getting upset over the ordeal and that people from other parts of the country are dumping on you, there are good reasons for that.

    First and foremost, if you think of all the bad stereotypes of the US, where do you think almost every single one of them stems from.... Texas, home to the highest obesity in the US, Home to conservative bible belt hicks. Not to mention that god awful southern drawl.

    So when i have to sit there and listen to how the US is made fun of by other countries, and realize that NONE of those stereotypes apply to where I am from, which for the record has extremely low obesity and has more colleges than any other city in the world, an extremely intellectual region, and a very well rounded educated business class.

    And TEXANS wonder why there is resentment towards them....

    April 21, 2009 at 2:08 pm |
  4. Trevor Pugh

    I am a long time Texan who has lived in other countries, and I can say without equivocation that being a small po-dunk sovereign state ain’t what its cracked up to be.

    If Texas seceded we would rank about number 48 on the list of population right after North Korea and Ghana. I guess we could form our government after North Korea’s model – or is that what the Supreme Leader Perry would want?

    Of course if you paid Texas property taxes you might understand why people are attending tea parties so enthusiastically in Texas, one of these events being where Perry implied he would be ok with talking about secession. But then we must remember that the reason state taxes are at an all time high is because conservatives stopped taxation at the federal level, leaving us poor sops to pick up the slack at the state level. Oh, but then again this state is a Republican strong hold, so what’s the deal here?

    Maybe we really need those services or that infrastructure that conservatives so diligently cut from federal budgets?

    Let’s face it; this is another of the constant litany of efforts by a bunch of frantic conservatives to take attention away from what really matters.

    It has become clearer over the last 30 years, since Regan famously said that government is not the solution but the problem, that emperor Regan had no clothes. After all, if conservatives got what they really wanted – no government – we would be in a state of anarchy leaving room for a strong leader to step in and form a totalitarian regime akin to that found in North Korea.

    I just thought I heard a cheer from Perry’s supporters!

    April 21, 2009 at 2:08 pm |
  5. Hellokitti

    Let's call their bluff and encourage them to leave. And I mean they really should. All this is just a tantrum because their trickle down/deregulatin have ruined this country so badly that a majority of Americans, who are quite conservative, have chosen to embark un a radical course to save the country. If the US kicked them out tomorrow, they would lose massive amounts of federal funding and then be responsible for setting up their own government, military and fund their own infrastructure. All this at a time when oil is not earning particularly well and the world is clamoring for alternative energy. Go ahead, Perry and Paul, take your crazy state and leave.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:08 pm |
  6. Steph

    This wouldn’t have anything to do with President Obama being black and the state that wants to secede being on of the most racist..tisk tisk. Since Bush bankrupt 3 corporations that his daddy gave him and then almost bankrupted the largest corporation in the world as President..hey when you Texans decide to sucede..he could be your President again! Maybe a 5th time will be a charm. Since you are dumb enough to even think about succession, you might be dumb enough to make Bush your President..again.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:07 pm |
  7. Agree With Texas

    Why are the liberals here all fired up about a Texas secession.

    In my opinion they are only worried about losing the revenue.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:07 pm |
  8. Carl

    To the person(s) throwing Toby Keith under the bus along with republicans, please remember that he was an Obama supporter, voted for Obama, and is a loyal democrat.

    Keep the stupid coming boys and girls. It shows the true face of America.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:07 pm |
  9. RJ

    Secede to where? I have to agree with some of the words of "the center square" as far as England and King George are concerned however, we as Americans put ourselves in this economic position. We all thought that everything was great, the stock market was great, and then the bottom feel out. My question is, if the government does nothing does that stop the economic fallout. Does it stem the tide of lost jobs? We should be grateful the we live in a country where our government can act to do something even if it means we will have to help by paying more taxes. You cannot get something for nothing and the cost of doing nothing could be more than we can bear in relation to paying more taxes by doing something. I think we need to accept that fact that we are all going to have to pay to fix this and the sooner we realize that the sooner we can move on and get beyond this.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:07 pm |
  10. Tom

    Talk about ignorance, I think some of you could stand to watch the YouTube entitled "The Philosophy of Liberty". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I

    If the Constitution is the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND to the GOVERNMENT, how do you people propose that they are held accountable when they violate this law? "Voting the bums out" hasn't worked when you've had centuries of us frogs being in the pot with the heat slowly being turned up.

    My goodness the ignorance never ceases to amaze me. Some of you here both on the left/right need to spend some time reading our Founding documents like the Federalist Papers, Anti-Federalist Papers, Thomas Paine's Common Sense.

    If TX were to secede I'd move back to that Republic IMMEDIATELY!

    April 21, 2009 at 2:06 pm |
  11. Republicans are HYPOCRITES...

    Mike P

    You are an idiot. Not every southern state is as ignorant as you and your Texan buddies. Why do you call us "northern elitists"??? Is it because we are not trash??? you are southern trash. so northern elitists vs. southern trash??? sounds good to me. since it is illegal for Texas to secede and you would be destroyed in less than an hour. WHY DONT YOU MOVE AWAY... you never complained when george Bush was in POWER destroying the constitution for 8 years. but now Obama comes along and tries to FIX everything that Bush ruined and you are all upset. How about you move to Cuba. we will not miss you I promise. Your hypocrisy is disgusting

    April 21, 2009 at 2:06 pm |
  12. Sheila

    I see, when the going gets tough let's just leave. When you love something you stick by it. I love this country and rain or shine I will do what I can to help make it better. Not run away from it.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:06 pm |
  13. Mike

    Let Texas go. If the people of that state want to go it alone, the USA is better off without them! Go to hell TEXAS!!!

    April 21, 2009 at 2:06 pm |
  14. Traci

    It's hard to imagine "secession from Britain" as unconstitutional, as there wasn't a Constitution at the time...

    April 21, 2009 at 2:06 pm |
  15. Ken

    Many on this board would be surprised who made this quote:

    "Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right – a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit." – Abraham Lincoln in a speech to Congress 1848

    It is unfortunate that too many people in this country don't seek to educate themselves outside of the education provided by our biased and selective educational system.

    BTW, the New England secession that Dr. Paul refers to is NOT the original secession from England, but the one that was talked about during the War of 1812, we most certainly had a Constitution then.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:05 pm |
  16. Sackett

    Does this mean the "Alamo" was all for naught?

    April 21, 2009 at 2:05 pm |
  17. Trevor Spizzirri

    Secession should be considered. We would be fine in Texas.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:05 pm |
  18. Daniel

    I live in Texas and this guy does not represent me.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:05 pm |
  19. sgurdog

    It's certainly appears to be unpatriotic to suggest secession from the union that makes us the USA.

    Although I would say that most of us are just as unpatriotic for allowing idiot politicians from Texas to bury the entire country 6 feet under.

    Think about it...everytime a politician from Texas is campaigning for federal office, all you ever hear is Texas. They're Texans first and Americans second. Their egos outduel their brains.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:05 pm |
  20. Teamosil

    I've always kind of thought we should probably ask Texas to leave the union anyways... They're quite a few years behind the norm for the US. Texas succeeding would probably be the best for everybody except the minority groups living in Texas. We'd need to be sure to offer political asylum to any minorities or mentally challenged Texans that wanted to escape the death penalty orgy that would be sure to follow succession...

    April 21, 2009 at 2:04 pm |
  21. Hope

    What is ridiculous is those of you who do not research before writing. The "secession" movement was started by democrats back in 2004...see secession dot net: "After the 2004 elections in the United States, millions of non-Republicans were thinking seriously of secession.."

    And the American Secession project at dot us, also started in 2004. The Lakota Indians declared their independence back in 2007.

    Secession is not treason. What is treason is the abolishment of the original constitution; the move from freedom to facsism; and from a republic form of government to a socialist/communist form of government.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:04 pm |
  22. Terry

    The U. S. is not the Country of 200 , 100, 50, or even 30 years ago. It is self imploding. The political system of our Founding Fathers is ignored. Democrat party is a socialist party, republican party lost its soul and principles. You have a Judge on the Supreme Court looking to Europe for direction, ignoring the Constitution. You have a president that is changing two hundred years of capitolism to socialism, you have 50% of people in the country who prefer socialism, you have moral decay, murdering of the unborn totally unchecked and encoruaged, you have a presidient who wants to be not a leader in the world, but its leader. You have the president say that the U.S. is not a christian nation, it surely was at one time.

    The US may soon turn so much from its founding that it will be unable to turn back to what made it great. The idea is to give everyone an opportunity for the American dream, that requires work on the part of individuals, not hand outs or bail outs. People are being conditioned to not recognize that work is required, but expect hand outs. President Kennedy said "Its not what your Country can do for you, but what you can do for your Country." This President has turned this statement of President Kennedy's on its head, "" What can your Country do for you". Like the drug dealer with the drug, the population will be addicted and dependent on the governement. Governement will become god.

    The question is will the US become something unrecognizable which will be its demise, or will it's people fight for its birth right that the Founding Fathers gave it?

    This fight will not be a bloody war, yet it will be a war. But if it is lost, the dictatorship that will come within the next 20 years that will arise due to this new govenment's inability to deliver on its promises will lead to blood shed.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:04 pm |
  23. Linda

    The insinuation that Texas will secede is a tool, in my opinion, being used to once more manipulate voters in Texas. Rick Perry would like to link his most likely opponent with Washington politics. I agree with the comment that no one did this to us–we the people voted for the politicians who were elected to office. We've been responsible for voting in officials since–oh–about the end of the American Revolution. You'd think we'd learn but we don't. All of this didn't start January 20, 2009, when Obama was voted into the Presidency. I'm heartened by the comments I've read about this article though. Nice to know there are still some adults out there.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:04 pm |
  24. Andrew

    Dont let the door hit your tush on the way out TX! Good luck with that southern border.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:04 pm |
  25. Andre, Los Angeles

    We here in Calfornia have been big believers in Texas independence for a LONG TIME. As far as many of us are concerned, Texas can take its death chambers, enrons, ex presidents and its gun toting mentality and arrogance and go... secede... (I really wanted to say something else here but my post wouldnt make it). We are building the 1000 mile fence on the wrong border if you ask me. Good riddance.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:04 pm |
  26. Henry

    There's nothing in Constitution that allows secession, and the Civil War put to rest the notion that it was possible. And please, Texas is not unique in "having been an independent republic." So was Vermont (1777-1791), and technically so were all the 13 colonies from when they declared independence to when they signed the Articles of Confederation.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:03 pm |
  27. Ray

    How fun. Americans talk big about independence. Can anyone against the idea tell me independence and secession do not share similar values? How can a person effectively evaluate an extreme situation, such as the global crisis, without thinking outside the box? It's called questioning authority. The situation is out-of-balance. The people in charge lead us to this. We SHOULD question their solution. That is our duty as Americans. Display independent, critical-thinking. We can NOT wait and then be an angry mob rioting in streets.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:03 pm |
  28. Peter Vogel

    Either Mr. Paul stopped reading his American history before he got to the Civil War, or he thinks he's wiser than Abraham Lincoln. Amazing.

    Even setting aside history, only a fool would think secession would be a good idea in this global economy. Even if done amicably, such a move would cause untold financial chaos, raise the possibility of a Texas/Mexican border war, divide families, etc. Lunacy. But emotionally, I almost wish they would do it. Free the country from Texas and the GOP will become a footnote of history, a permanent electoral minority. Typical right-wing thinking.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:03 pm |
  29. andy

    Mr.Perry – how about providing healthcare to those who need it in Texas before you talk about secession?

    April 21, 2009 at 2:02 pm |
  30. Roger in El Paso

    Tom,

    When we take our high and mighty attitude out of the union, we are also going to take our 40% of the oil reserve and 30% of natural gas reserve, the largest source of wind generated energy and quite a bit of the modern industry. BTW, we will also claim ownership of a few installations like Dyess AFB, Ft. Bliss and Ft. Hood.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:02 pm |
  31. Howard

    No, it's NOT O.K. to talk about secession. Secession is insurrection against the government and people of the United States of America. It's treason, plain and simple.

    Our grand union (Rick Perry's words) was borne of the conviction that the states were better off together than each one going its own way. Almost every state has, at some point in its history, found cause to question the trend of national policies. How could the Union survive if any state could remove itself just because it was at odds with the nation's direction?

    Anyway, Texas won't secede. Texans know darn well Mexico would love to reconquer Texas, and Texas doesn't have the manpower to hold off the modern Mexican army.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:02 pm |
  32. nobody actually puts their name here...

    Oh please. These people need to grow up. With an economic meltdown as big as this, people need to stick together rather than point fingers. It's Texas's problem as much as it is New Yorks – this is what we call a "Nation-Wide Crisis." And more importantly, secession would accomplish nothing but bring to the table even more problems, just like the Civil War secession. How much of the debt does Texas take? Who becomes a Texan citizen instead of a United States citizen? You have to create a whole new Constitution, a whole new government, a whole new legal entity. You have to start your own armed forces, create a stable currency, and establish diplomatic relations with a whole world of countries that have much more concrete foundations, and who won't take kindly to a brand-new "Baby Nation" butting in and trying to run the show.

    The entire notion is preposterous. There's just no viable way to create a new country in this economic and political climate. These are just sour people looking for a solution that looks "Patriotic." You want patriotism? Shut your traps and accept the system. The Election is over, and your leaders' jobs are hard enough without your Confederate propaganda, Tea Parties, and "We're Never Happy" attitude.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:02 pm |
  33. mary jane

    The Dems. are still blaming Bush! again how long has Pellosi and Reed and Barney (Frank) been in office. They are and were in control. This hatred from the Dems has not changed it's the same I heard and read for eight years. Listen to the stuff Carter has said about Bush( even worse from abroad) and he was a president .It feels better though when it"s not the one u voted for.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:02 pm |
  34. jonny history

    Hey Texans, practice your Spanish. Were giving you back!

    April 21, 2009 at 2:02 pm |
  35. Daniel

    Not the best thing for Texas to be independent, although breaking into 5 separate states would be a good step in turning this government around.

    What some people should be talking about is a possible impeachment of the current president for what he has done reciently with hostile foreign countries.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:01 pm |
  36. charles

    Americans are stupid.

    everything is unamerican, everything is treason.
    we deserve the terrible, myopic government that we have had for the last 50 years.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:01 pm |
  37. John

    No, Ron, it's called T-R-E-A-S-O-N.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:01 pm |
  38. Jim

    What is Texas going to sell? cattle? oil? Poverty? hahahha.

    Mighty words from a state that receives so many federal subsidies.

    What s wrong, Texas didn't get its share of federal subsidies this year?

    Secession?

    Them be fighting words!

    April 21, 2009 at 2:01 pm |
  39. Ulyses

    I saw that interview on TV. I'm so glad this bozo didn't make it on the election. What was he thinking? Are republicans so deranged that they would rather see the country fail and break apart just to prove their twisted ways? Perry is an idiot for saying what he said. He must really hate the USA with comments like those. A politician is just like a diaper. Change them often and for the same reason.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:01 pm |
  40. Jim bob

    You folks might want to think long and hard about this secession thing. My part of the country, Mississippi, tried that once before and it did not work out too well. We have felt the pain ever since. Before we go that route again, I would want a whole lot more help than we had last time.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:00 pm |
  41. Sam

    Ron Paul 2012!

    April 21, 2009 at 2:00 pm |
  42. Scott

    Blow texas off the map and let them go. Who needs them anyway?

    April 21, 2009 at 2:00 pm |
  43. Republicans are going extinct

    TruthBTold

    you are the most brainwashed person on here. The Civil war of 49 states Vs. texas would be over in 1 hour. please get over yourself, you are a fool.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:00 pm |
  44. Jeff

    U are right TruthBTold. Not many people know that

    April 21, 2009 at 2:00 pm |
  45. Eric

    From the Declaration of Independence: "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it". This is the principle behind the right (or duty) of secession.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:00 pm |
  46. Christopher Trella

    I respect Ron Paul, but his argument about secession being a part of America's early history is not a good reason for Texas to secede. It was also part of history for Puritan Witch Trials to murder innocent women; it's just a silly argument. Texas just isn't getting their way and they're not accustomed to it. If extremely liberal states were able to tough it up during the Bush Administration then Texas can tough it up during the Obama administration.

    April 21, 2009 at 2:00 pm |
  47. L.A.

    Every example of legitimate secession (including the U.S.A.) was based on not liking the parent country. So if the current secession talk is not un-American, it is anti-America.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:59 pm |
  48. Gary

    It seems the GOP has succeeded in seceding from reality and any form of rational debate.

    Maybe Texas could become a homeland for the wingnuts who want to destroy America because their party lost a Presidential election.

    First Sarah Palin's husband wanted to destroy America with the AIP, now Ron Paul. Why does the GOP vote in elections when they will just shout "secede!" if they lose????

    The GOP is doing a better job of destroying America from the inside than terrorists could ever do from the outside.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:59 pm |
  49. Raymond

    There is only one thing to say about this:

    SECESSION IS TREASON!

    To even talk of supporting secession is not constructive and is highly disrespectful of all of the soldiers who have given their lives for this great country.

    We are a union, if we have issues to work out, we must do so together; If we do not work the issues out, then they must not be that critical.

    Anyone who supports secession is supporting the destruction of our country which puts them in the same class as Bin Laden in my book.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:59 pm |
  50. Kristin

    Sigh. Texas cannot legally secede the Union. They can, however, split into 5 separate states. Not only that, why didn't Ron Paul, the ultimate in idiocy, forget to mention the wars following states announcing secession? Duh. He's also for massive deregulation, zero funding for education and any other federal program. Imagine what the world we be like right now if that freak got a vote! Thank goodness college students and conspiracy theorists tend not to vote 😀

    April 21, 2009 at 1:59 pm |
  51. Republicans are going extinct

    how about you Texans who hate Obama so much just move away. It is illegal for Texas to secede. Those are just words from a cry baby. How about you put your money where your mouth is. GO AWAY you will not be missed or even noticed.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:58 pm |
  52. JT

    I find it amazing how a mere talk of secession can result in both Ron Paul and Gov. Perry being labeled as treasonous. Yes the American colonies did secede. Maybe it was called "Independence" but it was a secession. One person even pointed out that if California was to talk about seceding Republicans would be up in arms. If California wants to secede, let them. Who cares? The problem we have is that members of both parties have spent us into oblivion. And now President Obama has only exasperated the problem by tripling the national debt in a matter of only 4 years. 4 years! It took us over 70 years to come up with the debt we have now and he can triple it in less than 4 years. The only we will learn as a society is for our country to go bankrupt and descend into anarchy. I suggest that members of both parties work together to balance our budget in a bi-partisan way. I know it will never happen especially with the rubber stamp Congress we have now. And yes it is a rubber stamp Congress when no one reads the "stimulus" bill before they vote on it. I think secession talk is not only appropriate, but I believe we need to start talking about replacing every elected official in Washington. That is the only way we will truly be able to right this wrong that we have been on for so long.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:58 pm |
  53. Ancient River

    I suffered tremendously through 8 years of Bush who I thought would bring this country to financial ruin (I was correct)and end democracy here(thankfully, he failed). Everything he did completely flew in the face of what I wished for my country. But never once did I think about leaving or giving up because I truly love my land. It's like a parent or child; you may hate what it does, but still you love. That is patriotism, to lovein good times and bad. So when I hear these people talk about succession after three months of a brilliant, talented man of strength and peace trying to fix what has been so broken, even if they beleive he is anywhere near as bad as I thought Bush was, I cannot beleive these people were ever Americans at all. I hated Bush, but I loved America. Obviously Texas, Perry and Ron Paul do not.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:58 pm |
  54. Michelle in Texas

    Toby Keith = Oklahoman, not Texan

    April 21, 2009 at 1:57 pm |
  55. TruthBTold

    Texas can do it! Of course all the socialist democrat programs would simply fail without Texas tax dollars. Bad for washington.

    Civil War? Would be much different outcome today. No slavery issue exists today to help the Northern moral cause. Lincoln only issued the imancipation proclaimation which freed the slaves because he was losing the war and the north wanted him out. Making it into a moral issue saved his bacon!

    Don't take my word – Read Lincolns FIRST inaugural address – He stated that he had no right to abolish slavery where it already existed.
    He only used the issue later on 1863!! Read it yourself, it is a heavy read. Check it out! Don't be BRAINWASHED! 🙂

    April 21, 2009 at 1:57 pm |
  56. jlstx

    Rick Perry is an idiot which is why he only won his last election with 38% of the vote. He won't win again. The former Democrat is now trying to appeal to the ultra conservative extremists. Send him back to the farm.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:57 pm |
  57. Jarad

    Texas go ahead and leave, but please do us a favor, if possible take Utah and California with you.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:57 pm |
  58. Roshad Smith

    Mr. Paul, the only reason that we are such a powerful nation is our UNITY. If South America formed a unity such as ours, the resultant economy, military, and prosperity would equal ours. Look at our history and the history of other nations. The difference is the stability of our government with the peaceful transition of power and the fact that we've only had one civil war. Check your history.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:57 pm |
  59. mister mclister

    Right on, RP is my President....
    Support a Constitutional sized Federal Government
    Restore the Republic... End The Fed

    April 21, 2009 at 1:57 pm |
  60. ALFRED

    In response to sharon blake: You state rather arrogantly that nobody discussed succession during the Bush years. I lived in Vermont during the Bush years and believe me there was and is a well known, active and frighteningly aggressive secessionist movement in that state. Vermont, like Texas, was a sovereign republic before joining the union. Many Vermonters proudly state that they want to be a part of Canada. Notwithstanding the handful of Vermonters like the hero ship captain recently in the news, I found the majority of people that I met in that state to be viscous America haters who would jump at the chance to secede if given the opportunity. Do a little research next time you opine – just because it pops into your head doesn't mean it is factually true.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:57 pm |
  61. Bill S.

    Time to move the ICBMs out of Texas...

    April 21, 2009 at 1:57 pm |
  62. DMR

    This is just more Repubican and CONservative nonsense. They had their poster child in the White House for eight years and absolute control of Congress for six of the eight years and look what it got us.

    The Republicans and the CONservatives have nothing to offer, just more of the same nonsense they spewed for eight years. The only thing they are succeeding in doing is rpving how out-of-touch they are.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:57 pm |
  63. Gemoraw

    If Ron Paul's strategy to secede Texas and re-elect his moron friend George Bush as a president, Good Luck!

    April 21, 2009 at 1:56 pm |
  64. foo

    American government is broken, the cost of corruption is now greater than the benefit and more corruption (bailouts) won't fix it. Its time to build a new government that is not based on our corrupt 2 party system. If states have to secede to accomplish this, then by all means!

    April 21, 2009 at 1:56 pm |
  65. richard

    Wow, Has Ron Paul gone over the deep end? Secession speech is about the dissolution of the United States. That amounts to insurrection! Frankly, secession is all about reneging on agreements signed by those who now want to negate them. In other words, violation of written contracts. But then the people that Bush added to the Supreme Court seem to believe that violation of contracts is fine as long as it is violated by powerful commercial interests. The fact is that these people who are ranting about secession are more UnAmerican than all the communists chased by J Edgar Hoover!

    April 21, 2009 at 1:56 pm |
  66. logical

    Some people appear to be ignorant to the definition of the word secede. So let me go ahead and define it for you:

    Secede – To withdraw formally from membership in an organization, association, or alliance. – Source: Freedictionary.com

    Secede – to withdraw from an organization (as a religious communion or political party or federation) – Source: Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    As you can see Ron Paul's use of the word secede was correct when he said, "But don’t they remember how we came in to our being? We used secession, we seceded from England." Yes, England was a monarchy. Yes, we are a democracy. Yes, the constitution of the United States did not exist. The point is England was a country. A country that the colonies were part of and formally withdrew from; therefore, the colonies SECEDED from England.

    If a group doesn't agree with the policies of their larger organization, in this case Texas and U.S., then they can secede if they choose. With that said if Texas did choose to secede it would most likely be short lived as the US Armed Forces would most likely obliterate any opposition in Texas.

    Now, Ron Paul is simply saying that the ability for the people to stand up for what they believe in is a core American principle and how the country was founded. America was formed because a group of people seceded from England, because they wanted fair representation and fought a war over it. They believed in their ideals and were willing to die for them. I think this pretty much establishes that secession is not an un-american ideal.

    If people in Texas want to secede from the United States, because the federal goverment is using tax payer money to prop up the banking system then they can do it. They just better be prepared to die for it.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:55 pm |
  67. jae

    YOU got exactly what YOU asked for. WE in Texas did not vote Obama into office.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:55 pm |
  68. Pete

    Read what Ken had to say.... It has to be the most respectable post out there, and its spot on...

    The problem isn’t tax cuts or traditional federal spending (wise spending). The problem is that you can’t do both at the same time. History proves, and Dr Arthur Laffer proved, tax cuts work. You cannot spend your way into prosperity. We also know we live in an advanced society because of responsible federal tax spending. However, you cannot fight the war on terror and cut taxes simultaneously. That was the mistake. Now, instead of recognizing the problem, Obama is increasing federal spending and increasing taxes, further burdening the American taxpayer at precisely the wrong time in the economic cycle. Spending should be cut, not increased. Taxes can be left at current levels, or slightly increased, but Dr. Laffer proved that the US Treasury will reach a point of “diminishing returns” in their attempt to continually raise taxes. Think of it this way – you cannot tax people at a rate of 100% and expect them to continue to work. So where is the saturation point? 40%? 50%? We’re close to the saturation point right now. Texas succession talk, Tea Party protests and general outrage is not a coincidence.

    If you dont like what your living through, gain a voice, lead the herd, if not, become one of the herd....

    RATM: "Anger is a gift"

    April 21, 2009 at 1:55 pm |
  69. Craig

    Before Texas was Texas, U.S.A. ... it was the Sovereign Republic of Texas. ITS OWN COUNTRY. All you liberal nuts should study a little Texas history. We had our own functioning government with Presidents, Vice Presidents and Congress. Being part of the U.S. *was* a great honor. Years of excessive federal spending, taxing and depletion of personal rights has disappointed most Texans. Frankly America is far from what its founding fathers intended.

    If the U.S. isn't going to strictly stick the to Constitution (the contract we agreed to), I say succeed. Breaking away from the U.S. does not make us enemies. It makes us different ... as we always have been. Texans believe in the Constitution. Sadly, the traitors here are most other states/people that believe in the idea that the Constitution should be bent to serve their needs/wants.

    Frankly, the U.S. would be a better place with some good ole Texas values. I'm not talking about George Bush values either. Most Texans hate the Bush family. Frankly their values are about as Texan as our current President.

    Small government, *personal responsibility*, REAL FREEDOM and the pursuit of happiness. LIBERTY OR DEATH! That's what we believe. That's how (most of us) live.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:54 pm |
  70. Mike

    WOW

    At what point don't you understand that this is merely talk of an option. No putting things into action.

    lol @ 95% of people not having taxes raised well considering 20% of the entire US population only pay into taxes but yet we are going to give money to people who never paid into the system.

    The point you guys don't understand is Republician and Democrats got us here. When other countries won't lend us money to operate the US Government what are you going to say. When the government goes broke and on its current path it will, maybe you can run to Massachusetts to be saved. Or go to California with the gun limitations citizens have, the criminals will follow the law Right?

    The sky may not be falling right now but shadows are forming, it will always amaze me no matter what the conversation is it always turns into Right vs. Left. I am an American I do vote but do not belong to a party.

    I am the guy paying 50k+ a year in taxes I don't NEED government to do anything for me, but hey lets put a bubble around the Americans that can't take care of themselves, we need to save everyone from themselves.

    I thought this is the land of opportunity not the land of entitlements and lawsuits. If I make a bad business decision am I going to be bailed out?

    Maybe we should ask Chavez to help with our problems or maybe Iran can help? How about Russia? North Korea? Oh those are bad guys well then England (higher unemployment then US) then France will save us (also higher unemployment). Maybe Americans should get off the lazy butts and actually work for a living oh wait did I just break Union rules oh no lawsuit incoming.

    It is not treason to break a contract.

    Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]." In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavour.

    How is Secession considered Treason?

    April 21, 2009 at 1:54 pm |
  71. Jim

    secession? The Civil War was fought over this and guess who lost? Texas cant even economically sustain itself. No industry, no tank repair facilities, nothing. It would be surrounded on three sides in desert country where there is no where to hide. Insane idea. Secession = civil war. No.Bad idea.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:54 pm |
  72. Ali G

    On First principles – why is this govt. official (and others for that matter) wasting time talking about secession and talking to CNN...As tax payers we elected these officials to do their jobs first. No one is focusing on making sure the elected officials are focusing on their priorities and jobs.

    CNN..stop hounding our employees and let them get back to work.. please find some meaningfull news to put on your websites...if you cannot do that, then just put up more ads...but the media has made a circus of our government.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:54 pm |
  73. thecoloneled

    time to beat some southern rebels down again. Have people completely lost their minds.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:54 pm |
  74. Lone Star

    The "federal troops will crush Texas?"

    Do any of you that believe this know anybody in the military? The military is dominated with Texans and people from other southern states. Who exactly are these imaginary federal troops going to be? Some gun control, pot smoking hippies from California?
    The “federal troops” you speak of are Texans!

    April 21, 2009 at 1:54 pm |
  75. Chris in OK

    Wow the East and Left Coast Libs are Fired-up!
    Go Texas!

    April 21, 2009 at 1:54 pm |
  76. Jason

    Someone furhter down wrote "The state the spawned W, oh sweet Jesus, please go! Can we expedite the secession?
    "

    Get it right. He's a yankee from Connecticut that just happened to move here.

    Liberal Ignorance is what got us in the mess we're in today.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:53 pm |
  77. Bob

    "Fact is, Texas is actually capable of secession. Economically, militarily, etc."

    Oh really? Did you ever wonder why it's called the "national guard"? Economically? It might be scarier if Arkansas threatened to secede .... at least they've got Walmart. LOL

    April 21, 2009 at 1:53 pm |
  78. George Hayduke

    You know the difference between Texas and yogurt?

    Yogurt has an active culture!

    April 21, 2009 at 1:53 pm |
  79. Justin

    "The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.”

    Read the last line secession is possible thru WAR, like the civil war or though consent of those involved (i.e. a joint resolution between Texas and Congress (representatives of the States) allowing Texas to leave the Union).

    April 21, 2009 at 1:53 pm |
  80. md

    the democratic and republican parties are both screwing the american people, as a reminder this is a free country, and the federal government is doing a good job at taking our freedoms away, big brother is watching

    April 21, 2009 at 1:53 pm |
  81. Neil

    That's a brilliant idea. Just how is Texas going to replace the billions of dollars it recieves from little enterprises like NASA and all of those military bases? Their oil is pretty well played out and they can't grow as much food as a similar sized piece of Iowa or Nebraska.

    Mexico, what is your bid for this piece of land?

    April 21, 2009 at 1:52 pm |
  82. Dear Zach

    "Big Bad Huge Govt"

    I love the debate on big govt. vs small govt.

    Example:
    Florida declares Gore the winner of that state's election.

    WAIT!!! Let's appeal it all the way to the supreme court of the United States of America to decide...

    Big Govt. : 10
    Small Govt. : 0

    It's amazing how an arguement is only good when it suits your needs...

    April 21, 2009 at 1:52 pm |
  83. observer

    This is how everything started in former Yugoslavia. Do you think we just woke up one day and decided would be great to start shooting each other? Deep, deep economic crisis, weaker and weaker central government, talks about secession and then civil war. It was the process that took 10-15 years before the outbreak of the civil war. The key here (as always) is the economic crisis. Interests and money is what keep us together. Let's hope the economy will get better soon.Then ideas like this will simply die away. Until next time.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:52 pm |
  84. David

    There has been nothing but sour grapes coming from the GOP since they lost the election, and now Ron Paul is joining in on that wave. Anything to get attention, apparently.

    Instead of constructive ideas, the GOP has been doing a tailspin into hateful rhetoric, sour grapes, and any attempt to block Obama's progress. Do they really want to appeal to future voters, or are they purposely trying to become extremist and segmented?

    This whole secession topic is silly. We have better things to do. Stop with the childish sour grapes, GOP. We don't have time for tantrums.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:52 pm |
  85. GOP is disgusting...

    Renee

    you call us uneducated. However you are the one that is completely wrong. Texas has the right to split into 5 states. They DO NOT have the right to secede. Where do you get your information from? There is ZERO documentation saying texas is allowed to secede. Zero none it is illegal. You have never read this documentation because id DOES NOT EXIST.

    I will repeat myself since obviously don't get it...

    TEXAS CAN SPLIT INTO 5 STATES

    TEXAS IS NOT ALLOWED TO SECEDE... DO YOUR HOMEWORK

    April 21, 2009 at 1:52 pm |
  86. Kal

    I find it very ironic that after the South has dominated this country for the last 40 years, and has given us Johnson, Carter, Clinton, VP Gore, Bush I, Bush 2, and also Delay, Gingrich and other government leaders, they start to whine uncontrollably as soon as a few Notherners are calling the shots. While we were almost ruined over the last 8 years, did you hear New York or Illinois scream for secession? The only good thing to come of this latest story is that it effectively kills any chance Perry has for national office, and I say AMEN to that.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:52 pm |
  87. Tannim

    BTW, the unanswered question for TX or any other state that thinks about secession is how they would address the real resource problem of today: water.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:51 pm |
  88. Ancient River

    I suffered through 8 traumatic years of Bush, hated his policies, thought he would bring us to ruin (which he did), and that he might single handed end democracy, but in all my fears I loved my country and never considered severing my ties. I would stand and fight any way I could and feeling very alone and miserable at times. So obviously, to me, this governor, Ron Paul and the people of Texas who would choose to succeed after only three months of a course different what they might choose, and a course endorsed by a majority of the electorate of this country, cannot be true Americans or love this country at all. They need to suceed if they cannot stick by this country in good times and bad.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:51 pm |
  89. Eric

    Can't we all just agree that our government is out of control? It has been proven that both parties serve their own interests in their own ways, whether you prefer spending on the armed forces or tax cuts that ultimately can't be sustained, or social projects and bailouts that also can't be sustained.

    We all need to quit this partisanship, neither party has our best interest in mind. They both play up emotional issues to get our support and turn us against each other. If this country fails, the people on capital hill will be fine, but those of us that actually made the money which we blindly allowed the government to spend away are the screwed ones. Honestly, we put so much into who the president is, but then turn around and not give two licks about who we send from our own back yards to vote on our behalfs. Presidents are figureheads, they read the map and make suggestions where to go, but the House and Senate actually pilot the ship.

    This has been going on for decades, it's not a Democrat or a Republican issue, and if you think one is better than the other you have your priorities messed up. Open your eyes and question all government policies and wonder how anyone can pass a bill that is 452 pages long in two days or fix an economic situation that is unprecedented with no economic credentials. They play a game and we sadly are the pieces. Unless we all agree to do something about the Money Train that D.C. is chugging to the end of the tracks we are all in trouble. The only thing I have heard in here that is "un-American" is anyone who gets upset that others are speaking their minds.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:51 pm |
  90. Tannim

    In Texas v. White, the northern-dominated Reconstructionist Supreme Court ruled (in error) that secession was not possible.

    That ruling was in error because when it comes to entering the Union, or creating new states in the Union the Constitution sets out specific rules (Article 4, Section 3), but when it comes to leaving the Union, the Constitution is silent. In that vein the restriction on the power of a State to leave is vested as a reserved power of a State, and the People therein, in the Tenth Amendment, and the right of the People to exercise that power is reserved by the Ninth Amendment. The Court, in ruling on White, ignored the basics of the Constitution in favor of punishing the South for the War of Northern Aggression, and in doing so made a mockery of the Constitution, and the malarkey of a federal Union championed by that racist tyrant Lincoln was codified into law, setting America back a century in civil and constitutional rights.

    If Texas or another state decides to leave and test the situation again, great. It is overdue to tell Washington DC to get out of States' business.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:50 pm |
  91. Rob

    If any two state should secede, it is California and New York. We hold more power (money) than any other state, and could actually sustain ourselves. But the Federal government would go to war with those states, before it would let that tax revenue dissappear.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:50 pm |
  92. KennyP

    All of the people here who are crying about "what if California wanted to secede when Bush was in office" do not understand one thing – the republicans would welcome it. Republicans believe in being self sufficient, and having less people to pay for would only make for the better. California would become a Socialist society that would use all of its money on education, the environment, and welfare. When attacked by China, they would cry to their old friends who would invest their tax dollars in military, infastructure, and expansion of wealth.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:50 pm |
  93. Tom

    The secession of Texas would bring only joy. They would immediately be overrun by drug cartels and act as a convenient buffer zone between the US and Mexico, and God help any Texans trying to illegally enter the US....

    Mo: trsansplant is such an ugly word, lets substitute it with "Reject"

    Zach, thanks for the update that life isn't fair, that is not really news for the rest of us. Morons like you and Ron paul are the ones who want to take their ball and go home when the political client isn't ideal.

    Dave your an idiot, when Vermont breathed about secession everyone called them Communist Canadians, can you stop rewriting history for a second please.

    Kris+ Concerned, "Will of the people" is not regional, it is national. Texas agreed to be part of a larger group, they break their agreement iff they elave because things aren't going their way, not that i would miss them.

    Florida: really nice post actually.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:50 pm |
  94. jonathan

    What a great country we live in that we can even be talking about secession. I'm from Texas and I don't think we should secede.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:50 pm |
  95. Justin

    Do the Texans saying "we'd be better off on our own" really believe that the US would just let you leave? Ever hear of the civil war?

    Even if that were to happen, do you think Mexico would just stand by? Many mexicans still consider parts of the southwestern US as traditional mexican territory.

    You'd be surrounded by two much bigger, hostile neighbors.

    It wouldn't work out well for you.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:49 pm |
  96. AJ

    Who says that TX owns the defense industry?

    Locheed Martain – Bethesda, MD
    Boeing – Chicago, IL
    Northrop Grumman – Los Angeles, CA
    General Dynamics – Falls Church, VA
    Raytheon – Cambridge, MA
    L-3 – New York, NY
    United Technologies – Hartford, CT
    GE Aviation – Evendale, OH

    I agree that Taxes suck and spending could be reduced but I also like all the things that the govenment provides. I'll name a few: Roads, FDA testing, Military protection, Other law enforcement. If you think back to the days of the original revolution, Roads were dirt = no upkeep costs (ie free), Food was purchased locally, there was no real medicine, ie NO FDA. The British empire did squat to actually protect the colonists. Law was hendeled locally and often biased.

    Without Roads, I can't get to work, I can't make money.
    Without safe food and medicine, I sick or die and make no money
    Without the military, we'd all be russian by now.
    Without law enforcement, my neighbor would take my money.

    I would rather let the federal government waste a little and save me the trouble.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:49 pm |
  97. Thought Criminal

    Also, none of you seem to understand how important Texas is to the US economy. Just go ahead and look up how much of US oil is refined in Texas... don't worry, I'll wait until you figure it out.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:49 pm |
  98. Sharon

    The last time there was talk of seceding here in Texas was the go-go 1980s...just before the Texas S&L industry melted down. The secession talk died down pretty fast after the U.S. government (i.e., U.S. taxpayers) bailed us out to the tune of billions of $.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:49 pm |
  99. CHW

    Obviously people on the east coast are going to think succession is treason because they think that they are the chosen who are supposed to lead this country. But on the west coast we wonder why we need this do nothing east coast elitist group to stand above and look down on us and tell us we should pay taxes to their corporate government. Succession talk is not seen as extreme or crazy in Washington, Alaska, Idaho, Montana, or Oregon. I found it amusing when the arrogant left was abuzz about Palin addressing a group of secessionists. Well honey if you refuse to talk to "that sort" out west you aren't going to get elected to dog catcher.

    April 21, 2009 at 1:48 pm |
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