American Morning
Somali women flocking to port in hope of marrying pirates
Pirates are holding a U.S. captain hostage at sea. The Navy is watching everything that happens. So what is supposed to happen next? And what is driving this problem? We talked to someone who knows a thing or two about the pirates and has experience covering them in Somalia. Kaj Larsen, former U.S. Navy SEAL, spoke to T.J. Holmes on CNN’s American Morning Thursday.
Larsen says the root conditions of poverty, lawlessness and civil war on the ground in Somalia are to blame. The large sums of ransom money being paid out to pirates, he says, is even leading some Somali women to venture to the port town of Bosaso in hopes of marrying these newly-rich men.
T.J. Holmes: We know that piracy pays. What is it that's going to break this cycle if every time they take a ship, they get paid. Why stop it?
Kaj Larsen: That's the 50 or $100 million question, which is about the money that the pirates took in last year in ransom. The solution unfortunately is not going to be a military-centric one. Ultimately, you to have to find some way to govern this ungoverned space, this lawless sanctuary that the pirates have in Somalia. That's really the only long-term solution you’re going to see to this problem.
Holmes: Let's start with the military solution. Why not send a message?
Larsen: Certainly there would be some deterrent effect. I think in this case, the incentives are so large. The money that they’re making is so extraordinary, especially by Somalia standards, that it would be difficult. However, in this particular situation, the goal is to solve it as quickly and as safely as possible without putting the hostage in jeopardy.
Holmes: There are hopeless, deplorable conditions in Somalia. A life of piracy looks pretty good for some of these young men compared to the conditions in Somalia.
Larsen: You couldn't have said it better, T.J. I’ve been on the ground in Somalia. One of the interesting demographic things that’s happening right now is that single Somali women are flocking to the port town Bosaso where these pirates come out of in the hopes of marrying a pirate. So you can see that it really is - the root conditions of poverty, lawlessness and civil war on the ground in Somalia are really what are breeding this problem.
Holmes: Is it worth the risk for these companies to continue to go through the Gulf of Aden? Does it cost much to take another route? Is it worth it to take the chance, pay the ransom, and keep moving?
Larsen: So far, that's been the model. As these attacks increase, we've seen six in the last week alone, the cost of doing business in that area is just going to be too high. The insurance companies are going to jack up the rates of insurance. And at some point, they're not going to be able to continue without taking much more serious security measures or without finding an alternative route.
Holmes: Do you think this situation will begin to draw more attention to what's happening there off the Horn of Africa and maybe more action will begin to be taken by countries all over the world?
Larsen: I think this is a clarion call to the international community that Somalia is and continues to be a failed state. And that if we don't continue to pay attention to it, if we don't start changing the conditions on the ground there, if we don't start governing that ungoverned space that it’s going to be a breeding ground for piracy and possibly international terrorism. So yes, I would hope that this situation, that the silver lining in the cloud is that people would start paying attention to this horrific situation in the country there.
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Do not treat this as a law enforcement problem. Treat this as a military
problem. P-3 can detect a periscope sticking out of the water with its radar. It can certainly detect a rib. Do not use unarmed recon drones.
Use predator drones and blow away any rib full of armed black men.
2 or 3 destroyers can cover entire coast of Somalia.
This is really a solvable problem. We are just completely unwilling to solve it. By the way arming merchant marine is stupid. This RPG will be stolen and used in the first port of call. All we need is an armed to the teeth freighter in SF port. Yeah right. 5 inch deck guns on a liberian flagged freighter coming to port of Houston? Anybody with an actual brain out there in the the NRA land?
Take pre-emptive military action. Do not wait for pirates to attack.
Just sink anything that is smaller then a freighter moving that area of Indian ocean and sink any freighter launching a boat full of armed man. We have predator's for a reason, lets use them.
Here are some PRACTICAL SOLUTIONS: 1) Put a bullet hole in the floor of every boat along the Somali Coast. 2) Take a small point of land and warehouse all the boats on land on in marinas until they have a good government. 3) Create a Naval Blockade of the ports. 4) Drop leaflets onland warning no Somali boat to go more than 12 miles from the coast to catch fish and then arrest or sink those who stray beyond that line. 5) Let Ethiopia Annex them...they need some coastline anyway. 6) Put gps in the ransom money bags so we can track them to their homes. 7) Give them a small cut and throw them to the sharks. 8) Allow Mercenaries to get half the money if they catch or kill the pirates after payout. This would bring bored soldiers in from all over the world. 8) The UN should make a ruling that any mercenary who catches them in the act or afterwards can harvest their organs for sale as transplants. 9) Blockade the port and give out daily passes for offshore fisherman who apply for, have, and use a picture ID card issued from the UN. Also check the persons, IDs and cargos of each vessel before they re-enter the port. It would be a border check point in the water just like when a car wants to go back and forth from the USA to Mexico.
Start at one end of the country with A10's wing tip to wing tip and shoot their way to the other. Then turn around and go back. That should take care of the problem and it would also create open land for lawabiding people to settle.
Why not send in an agent with tracking devices? Find the base and send in the Marines. Destroy all boats on that port. They will need aircraft carrier, destroyer, and submarine near Somali to look out for pirates. Ship needs to be arm with assaults rifle. Otherwise spray the speed boat with fuel and warn them if they get closer, they will be ignited. I think they should check all boats and ships passing 100 miles off the coast of Somalia in regard to the international law of Sea Water. Have all boats of Somalia registered in. If one is suppected of being used, they can be check out. Any boats from Somalia not register, they can be sunk.
Time to take a few ships out at the source – the Port of Bosaso. Maybe a Stealth Bomber drops a few bombs in the harbor; and maybe a coule of F16's take out some of the million dollar pirate mansions in the the Port Town. The US should stick to its principle of NEVER negotiating with terrorists – and that includes pirates.
The CIA should take a few submarines in close to Somalia – and run a few black ops missions – a few assassinations of pirate leaders on the ground. Sooner or later, they will get the message.
If Somalia would just wake up and start taxing these pirates, they could get that country turned around, update their infrastructure, build schools, etc...
In Mexico we had kind of the similar problem with freight trucks. The solution? They were escorted by private security cars with armed agents. In the long term, it was cheaper for transporters to pay a private security group to escort the truck from town A to town B, than losing the cargo or paying ransom. And this kind of crimes pretty much stopped.
Hey creative people out there! This is business opportunity!
Hire private security boats to escort the ships, with radar and a 5 armed member crew. Detect the pirate boats from the distance and blast them. The price to pay for this kind of security is way cheaper than paying a ransom and the private security boats don't have to dock in the commercial ports.
An easy solution to the problem: Trojan Horse
The government should send Navy&Marines out in your average everyday run of the mill merchant ship. Armed to the teeth and ready to take on the pirates.
Dress half the crew in plain clothes and the other half in tactical gear. When the unassuming pirates board the ship...round em' up and throw them in the brig.
A sting operation...like the police.
Kill em' ALL!
This is ridiculous. The world's most powerful nation being held hostage by a group of lawless "skinnies". Launch a few missles and wipe them out. We know were they live – take them out already. Who will condemn us? And if they do, so what. President Bush would have already dealt with this in a manner consistent with our position on the world stage – what is obama going to do? Invite them over to discuss and tell them that we are weak, arrogant and they right for what they are doing. Enough already. Get this mess over with – wipe them out. Send in the Marines!
WHAT? Why is it always the US that is expected to go in and help these greedy leaders of these stone-age countries? I am sick of it. We have children in the US who go to bed hungry every night, and their parents are out hijacking tankers!
Kill them, pick them off one by one, either arm the tankers or send private killers. And one more thing people, SPELL CHECK. No one will take your comments seriously if they cannot understand what you are trying to say because of spelling errors.
We obviously don't remember President Clinton's failed actions in Somalia and it's repercussions very well. (Hint – rent Blackhawk Down) We've given them lots of time to clean up their act and have attempted to give them lots of aid. This is now a case of a failed society. If it was just failing on it's own and not bothering anyone else I would say just let them die off in piece. Instead it is fertile ground for terrorists who are being encouraged by how easily the West is influenced. We have repeatedly shown these thugs since about the 1950s that the people of the West will back down from any threat. Note the 30 acts of world wide terrorism since 9/11. Note the unwillingness to finish wars going all the way back to Korea and not letting McArthur go in and end the war.
The ONLY option at this point is scorched earth in all of Somalia. This will send a strong message to the rest of the thugs out there that this is not acceptable behavior and that there will be repercussions. It does not wipe out a race as the people have emigrated to the US and Europe to escape this thuggery.
Perhaps after removing all of the scum polluting Somalia, these great people will be able to once again return their homeland and live productive lives.
Kill them all. No mercy. No rest for the wicked.
Why don’t we have an aircraft carrier in the area? When a ship calls in a pirate threat we dispatch a couple F-16 or F-22’s or whatever fighter jets are used on those ships. The pirates are heavily armed and the threaten lives. Blow them out of the water and be done with them! Our Military should protect American lives whenever and wherever they are in danger.
Rick Ford has it right. Every boat should carry bazookas, with sailors trained to use them. Consistent termination of the lives and livelihoods of would be pirates will quickly put an end to this. Forget international laws that don't allow ships to protect themselves, the only law of relevance there is the law of the jungle. If you try to enter my house to take my possessions or hold my family ransom, I will shoot you if I can. I'd do the same if I was cruising by in $50M tanker.
Where is Jack Bauer? Only he can take care of this mess in 24hrs.
How fitting that the USS Bainbridge is the US Navy's vessel on-sight dealing with the current pirate situation. It was Commodore William Bainbridge, historically one of the US Navy's most famous officers (and the one for whom the ship is named) that the early US government had deal with the Barbary pirates from Tripoli, Algiers, and Tunis during the 1st and 2nd Barbary Wars of the early 19th century.
I say one bunker buster bomb in downtown Mogadishu for each attempted hijack.
Hire Blackwater to man the boats. They are currently out of a job in Iraq and have no qualm at being trigger happy. Here is an opportunity for Obama to put more Americans to work
It would be cheaper to hire a guard unit to go along on the ship with the cargo and when the pirates come after the ship blow them out of the water.
Blow up several of them and you will see a dramatic slowdown in the commandeering or trying to capture a ship.
It would no be that expensive to put on a couple of fify caliber machine guns and a couple of rocket launchers. They may be poor and stupid but if we blow up enough of them, I think they will get a little smarter and find another way of making a living if not then keep blowing them out of the water.
This is not the first time that pirates caused havoc on the seas and if could stop them once we can stop them again,
I think the response should be pretty clear cut in this case – in the other cases? not so much. The VAST majority of the ships hijacked are flagged under flags of convenience. The companies do this rather than register under the country that actually is the real home of the ship. USA , UK, France etc. Traditional reasons for choosing an open register include protection from income taxes, wage scales and regulations.
Well – if you are flagging under East Timor or Vanuatu and are doing this to specifically avoid following the regulations of the USA then why the hell should the USA protect you?
In this case the pirates actually did attack an American flagged ship and the response I think should strongly encourage the pirates never to touch an American ship again. in other words – Hammer em. React way out of proportion.
Much as the Pax Romana protected Romans throughout the known world the very fact that a ship is flagged USA, UK, France, or any other modern nation should protect them there. But for flags of convenience? You made your bed, now sleep in it.
Maybe it is time to take a page from the WWII playbook and start putting commercial shipping in Convoys protected by armed destroyers or military ships to protect them. If there is no chance to board these vessels, and almost a 100% chance of death or imprisonment, it will stop. How can the International Community take control of Somalia. It is ruled by war lords...it can only be taken if by armed force and then occupied. Who wants to do that? Somalia is where we had our "blackhawk down" incident and we pulled out. It's a lawless wasteland and I cannot imagine a situation where it can be controlled unless vast arms and resources are expended. Not worth it.
What needs to be done is not let any body leave a comment .
yaarrrggghhh!
400 years ago, the international community agreed on one thing, tie a rope around the pirates neck and hoist him up to the yard arm.
Why did we stop doing that?
I'm a "shoot from the hip" kind of guy (which is why I'm NOT in the Diplomatic Corps). I'd suggest getting the GPS co-ord's of the hijacked ship, flying a Predator to that area and , after ensuring that the pirates have what they want and no hostages are involved, launching a Hellfire or some other weapon at them or better yet their "mother ship" (assuming George Clinton is not on board).
Warn them, if it happens again there will be serious consequences.
When it happens again, send some AC130s from Djibouti over the coast and do gun runs, kill them and destroy the docks.
When it happens again, send in the AC130s and do it again...and again..and again. Kill them all, the world will be a better place.
As the previous poster, 'Samual Adams' put it:
"I guess a “modern, European Nation” like the United States just negotiates with terrorists."
That pretty much sums it all up, and is certainly what looks like will continue to be the case. We're running scared.
Two words:
Global Hawk.
Just launch one or two of those bad boy un-manned drones up in the air and equip them with Air to surface missles...use a supply chain Risk management software to identify high risk vessels..ID and attack from a distance...
done and done.
since it is in the interest of national security...the US public is already footing the bill for our Intel and Miltary funds...no need to allocate new funding at all.
Colette –
"I understand why these young men turn to this life as a way of providing for their families or whoever. The lure of easy money (easy for them, compared to the alternative), has a very strong appeal. This is no excuse for what they do, but that’s the way it is. ‘Nuff said!"
I'll be you understand that down here in good ole Texas we have a situation that falls under "immigration reform". Now I will be the first to tell you that if I was starving i'd figure out a way to get food...I'd even kill to feed my children...BUT...and here's the jaw dropper....I would not resort to violence so I can be a millionaire in the poorest friggen country in the world. So, I think you need to move "out of the box" on this one and see that these people are greedy and want only to be rich.
Here's how to handle the pirates: kill 'em all. Let God sort 'em out.
All they need to do, is set up a lane/ route that all cargo ships entering the area use (closed to all but cargo vessels) and set up a few UAV carrier ships along said route to patrol and protect said route using said UAVs (use helicopter based UAVs like the Fire Scout).
Cost would probably be about $40 million a year (Currently the cost for the running of 4 predators,including bases and personel is about $20mil a year.Ship based would be far less expensive and allow multiple ships with multiple UAVs for about the above price)
arm the ships??
Think here for a minute. that would mean arm all ships. right?
so now you heavily armed merchant ships docking on your ports. right?
who knows who is in what ship?
think, think think. The solution is not alway Blow em up, Kill em..............
Ignorance is no defence.
The problem with firing on them is that they'll then fire back. They've got every weapon any ship has, maybe more. Ramp it up and eventually they'll start firing first. Lots of gung-ho macho talk on this comment thread but none of it is practical. It'll only make matters worse.
I went through the Gulf of Aden on a ship a year ago. Pirates approached us, checked us out, then waved at us as we passed. Our best defense was being able to move so fast that it was too difficult-to-impossible for them to board. The captain said it was foolish and suicidal to fire on them because they would always win with a ship that wasn't a warship. In fact, the captain said guns were not allowed on the ship to keep any chance of firing on pirates out of the question and that that was the policy of all the ships. His words.
If they attack US flagged ship they attac the US. Grab them and send them for some 20 years in a US Jail. If they fire then you fire back and sink them to the bottom of the Ocean. Most ships would decide to be registered in US because the rates would be lower for Insurance. The other alternative is to occupy their Land. But do we really need another Irag?
Lets get the France involved. They can quickly surrender Paris so the pirates have a place to spend their money and the French people can get busy collaborating with the enemy and make up stories about their resistance to the enemy.
Onlooker April 9th, 2009 12:40 pm ET
"Sounds like they need to hire armed ex-soldiers as the crew."
They're all busy working for TSA, being worthless.
What happened to the intenational ban on paying ransoms? 30 years ago, this would not have happened because all nations refused to pay ransoms. If they can't make any money in piracy, it will stop.
I think some of you have forgotten that there was a UN mission to feed and help Somalia. What happened??? Our soldiers and Marines were put under UN control. Bad move.
It was ridiculous to have to request permission to fight back while trying to deliver food, water, and supplies to the people. Anyone recall the American dead being dragged through the streets??? That's when I first encountered Al Queda.
So all you bleeding hearts crying about the Somalis have lost me. My solution would be to put heavily armed boats that can be quickly deployed into the water, full of former soldiers and Marines.
After sinking the pirates, let them tread water, until the sharks come for dinner. Videotape the feeding frenzy and release it to the Somalis for free. I would then release the movies to the rest of the world, and charge $19.99. After all, I am an evil capatalist. Thank you for your time..... ARRRRGGHH!!!
Despite all the technological and intellectual advances America could not stop the financial pirates at Wall Street and elsewhere. See what they have done to us.Then what about supervising thousands of square miles of ocean. Our lives are being pirated.
Only joint efforts by all nations can stop the ocean piracy.
All they want is Rum.
They are handling it fine. There's an American hostage on board that little dingy they're stuck floating on, would you want them to just blast it with your loved one aboard. When they safely rescue him, they'll deal with the pirates. I just pray they don't harm him first.
One of the basic tenets of psychology is that if U want behavior to be repeated, then reward it. Pirates are rewarded with the ransom being paid and will continue to hijack ships as long as ransom money flows to them. Get the ship's captain back to us and then retaliate.
blow them up? their country is in a civil war, violence is daily life,
so die for 50 cents or die tying to get $50 million, what would your do?
We have these lawless countries that threaten the entire world's shipping why don't we invade these small countries and install a stable government? It wouldn't be illegal since there is no functioning government to begin with. If we can spend trillions in Iraq certainly we can spend a few million taking out some peasant rebels and install a stable government. Side note why do invade country's that never asked or wanted our help but ignore the poor & oppressed country's that cry & scream for us to help them?
I agree, weapons should be used to deter this before ransoms turn into torture tapes.
Maybe if the Somalis put as much effort into peace and trying to build better lives for themselves instead of the better way to hijack a boat we wouldn't be having this conversation. If they all wanted better lives they sure have funny ways of showing it.
Somalis have proven they do not want outside help, they want to live how they are, so all those who want to believe a hug will end all the worlds ill's need to fly on over their and let me know how it turns out for you, arms wide open and all.
Anyone without the backbone to stomach the truth needs to turn away and shut your useless mouth and as usual let the rest of use do the dirty work for YOU so you can go hug your next tree with your fantasy vision of the perfect world.
Oh and thanks Cap'n Xcaliber – you took my message and put it to your own sweet language of the seas. My hats off to you sir. Or as my gramps used to say "Tip o' th mornin' to ya"
Oh and Tiff.....
"ok.. take all the prostitutes from Vegas, dress them like wenches,load them up on a boat, send them to the gulf of Aden. When the vessel is taken, the pirates will discover their new wenches which in turn will keep them busy for months, then while they’re doing that, send in the marines to take the pirate vessels in harbor.
Two problems down" .................
I think you should be president.
Simple solution, Can you say "NAVY SEALS"? done deal.....
Stop the crap and let us do the job! end of story..........................
There have not been any problems from Carthage since Rome took care of it. If someone tries to hijack a ship, you kill him. If its ten pirates, then its ten dead bodies. If its a thousand, then they become a thousand bloated corpses floating home to their beaches. No US flagged ship should ever fall to pirates.
Interesting comments from both extremes.
I personally value human life, only if it has value!
I don't think that small arms on board those merchant vessels is a good idea, especially if they are stolen while in port or fall into the wrong hands via other methods.
Water cannons that shot fuel sounded like a wonderful idea. Sink them, shoot them but but don't drag them into a courtroom, ever!!
A prison full of Pirates awaiting trial with a whole team of tree huggers doing all in their power to get them off the hook is the last thing anyone needs. What about harpoon guns that shoot large enough projectiles to sink the smaller boats?
Easy answers:
Pay no ransom
Use extreme prejudice to rescue hostages and ships
maim and release pirates so they can be living examples of bad behaviour!
I agree with Kim's response, they have pretty much no other alternative. Going in and "killing them all" is just as savage as being a pirate yourself. Agree with it or not, eye for an eye is never the answer. Take a step back, look at who they are and why they are doing this. They are human just like you and I, they need provisions just like you and me. Things were good until foreign countries began infiltrating their waters and stealing all their fish: their only means of making a living. When that is taken away, what is left for them? Put yourself in that situation, what would you do? It's easy for us fortunate Americans to look down on those who barely have a percentage of what we have. The solution is to help them. Help them on a pure human to human level. I understand that the boat was carrying provisions and aid to Somalia, but there is more that we as a country can do to help them. I'm not saying that we need to burden all the responsibility, but we have the power and influence to get other powerful countries to collectively help countries in need. Rather than just feed them we should help them get on their own two feet and have them feed themselves. It's a greater investment for the future of humanity.
Let Jack Bauer handle it.
It must be George W Bush's fault.
Put Jack Sparrow on the job...
Re-commission the Battleships and park them within sight of the coast line. About two salvo's of those sixteen inchers should be enought o clear there minds. Every once in a while we all need an attitude adjustment!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jneen
The linguistic and mathmatic idiocy of many of these comments is phenomenal: if a military solution was feasible and cost effective any administration would persue it. A ransom of a few million is a petty cost compaired with what is costs – in terms of fuel, munitions, manpower hours, etc – to send even a small US Navy fleet, which might not even intercept these pirates. So those who would "talk tough" about blowing the pirates out of the water – it's like spending $100 to save a dollar.
The pirates ARE THE COMPANIES. They hire them and coordinate the attack in some cases. Wire the money to an account in cahoots with the CFO or CEO and voila - the shareholders get screwed - a few skinnies make a million bucks and the rest goes to the brilliant people who came up with the charade. This is why this is going on. The skinnies are being used by men "they work for". The men are the companies. This is where they got the AK 47 this is why they have banks that don't get tracked down. This is why nobody is racing to track down the money.
This problem is caused by bad family values, plain and simple. The liberal media miss the point - again. It's because of all those teens having sex, gays marrying, illegals crossing over, and not enough guns. Drill baby drill, that'll fix 'em!
." Even if people on message boards suddenly think mere violence would solve this, it won’t. These people have nothing to lose. They don’t CARE if they die."
Good, we don't care if they die either. Saves us the trouble and the bullets
Stop aid to Somalia- or threaten their Parliament.
They can fix this situation in a day.
You need a thorn to remove a thorn.
get the hostage situation resolved, send drones to the land and blow up the 10 biggest mansions there, then find a diplomatic way to resolve piracy, like dig for oil... their only hope.
Most of these pirates are using some of the latest techology and weapons. We cant just go and threaten to blow them up with artillery when most of the time they already have some type of artillery pointed at us.
Sooner or later we are going to have to strike first and ask questions later.
To the other "Tom":
Your idea of retrofitting ships with armor to withstand an RPG blast sounds good on paper, but I don't think you really know what you're up against.
An RPG-7 warhead (1950's technology) costs about $10 on the black market, and it can penetrate more than two FEET of solid armor grade steel or 5+ feet of steel-reenforced concrete. That's enough to put a hole in an armored warship.
An RPG-29 warhead can do the same, and it can also penetrate exposive reactive armor.
You simply cannot equip a merchant ship to withstand those kinds of weapons. You could spend millions of dollars, quadruple it's weight with armor (imagine the cost for that, plus the larger engines, slower speeds, and more fuel consumption) and still not solve the problem.
I think we should put Chuck Norris on a boat in the middle of the pirates and let them come to him... he could take care of the rest.
This is a commercial loss prevention issue. There have been no lives lossed as of yet. This would certainly change if the US military gets involved.
Whatever is decided they should not let it get out of hand and become a habit or it's all over!!!
I was sickened to see several comments about showing 'compassion' to the pirates and the suggestion they should not be shot or otherwise killed. How about we first show compassion to the innocent people being assaulted and taken hostage and their families and loved ones. No one forced these criminal pirates to take up arms and assault other humans.
Just because their developmental level is that of a child, even a child has consequences for misbehaving. Let's communicate to the pirate community that the game is over and future raids will be met with a force adequate to prevent the raid. Raid our merchant ships and you'll likely die.
Just imagine the value to humanity we'll be losing with those that choose to 'likely die' and continue to practice piracy. They could have gone on to such greatness...maybe a drug lord or professional assasin.
This whole thing seems fishy to me, the solution is so easy its like the shipping companies want the write-off.. How can 4 pirates take over a ship with 20 people on board? We don't need to kill them just shoot or spray them with something nasty (skunk urine or mace come to mind). The stories all said the try do defend themselves with water hoses, inject a nasty cnemical, problem solved. Ian R had a good idea but starting a fire when you are carrying several tons of fuel is probably not a good idea...
ok.. take all the prostitutes from Vegas, dress them like wenches,load them up on a boat, send them to the gulf of Aden. When the vessel is taken, the pirates will discover their new wenches which in turn will keep them busy for months, then while they're doing that, send in the marines to take the pirate vessels in harbor.
Two problems down.
These simple solutions,RPGs,nukes,etc.;don't you think that people who have studied this situation from every angle and know more about it than you do have considered and rejected these ideas?Somalia is a mess,partly because of past colonization,then becoming a cold war pawn and finally because it has become a good customer of the international arms dealers that " violence- as -the- solution " people support. No arms,no pirates,stop the flow. But how would you do that ? It's at least as lucrative as drug trafficking,the payoff outweighs the risks. As with terrorists,we need to approach the problem with more intelligence and less brute force. It's not that brute force doesn't have its place but in complex cases like this it's not effective. A patient gathering of information,an open consideration of ideas,a reasonable proposal, implimentation (wham!) and an evaluation of the results ,where the problem is solved or we go back to the drawing board.
The solution is simple and right in front of everyone's, anyone's face, if they care to see it.
Locate their base of operations. Scuttle all vessels, ALL OF THEM. Set patrol ships outside the area, and wait.
If pirates manage to set sail once again for the high seas, there will be an armed vessel ready to either turn them back, or they face the penalty of total destruction. End of story.
When the pirates get the message that their behavior will no longer be tolerated without retribution, these raids will lessen, and eventually stop.
The United States cannot, should not be the only world power to bear this burden. All countries who sail those waters must contribute to the effort to stop piracy.
This is the year 2009 and there are more problems facing Somalia. That's what our focus should be on, if we care at all. I doubt that anything will be done for these poor people, and that opion is based on what I've read in these comments today.
The mass of American people basically don't give a sh*t about a country like Somalia. They figure, hey, they've done this to themselves, so its their problem to fix. Sad but true.
I understand why these young men turn to this life as a way of providing for their families or whoever. The lure of easy money (easy for them, compared to the alternative), has a very strong appeal. This is no excuse for what they do, but that's the way it is. 'Nuff said!
"One of the interesting demographic things that’s happening right now is that single Somali women are flocking to the port town Bosaso where these pirates come out of in the hopes of marrying a pirate." Yo-ho-ho and a bottle o' rum,it be a pirate's life fer ME,MATEY!!
We just need Jack Bauer over there for a couple of episodes and the problem will be solved!
in all seriousness, these are NOT peace loving people and there is only one thing they will respond to, and that is force. I know it's sad, but it's true. The law is for the lawless!
I am amazed at how ignorant so many of these posts sound. So many of you are very critical of ransom payments and it's correlation to our economic bailout. While at the same time screaming that we should mobilize the remaining parts of our military (whether navy, marines, mercenaries) to bleed our country of what little tax payer dollars it has left to protect the products of the very companies that got US in to our current economic situation with greed, lies, and corruption.
Also interesting is that these companies have extremely close ties with our newly former president and all his pro-united states-imperalism cronies.
Another good note was made about the political sensitivity required to allow ships to constatly enter foreign ports, and the fact that if you make each of these ships a virtual war ship, that there are going to be a lot of international confrontations.
I also wanted to say that I am shocked that so many of you would say "kill them all, nuke the coutnry, destroy every ship, etc.etc."
If these things were to occur to americans by a foreign power, you would be up in arms (more so than now) with the same veil of ignorance over your eyes. Just because you or I may be an american is not what makes us right and everyone else wrong.
Please make some attempt to learn how to rationalize a situation, it would be a great service to your country.
We need a new president.... Obama SUCKS.
The ransoms being paid only attracts more young men to take up pirating. And this also leads to buying more sophisticated weapons and vessels by the pirates. We need to end this diplomatically. We must make all reasonable efforts to involve the government in Somalia. If this fails, we must take the laws into our own hands. If I am not mistaken, 300 miles out at sea is international waters, and no country can cry foul if we destroy these pirates.
Carrying weapons on commercial ships does not make sense. This might upset other countries in the Gulf of Aden and may make them nervous.
SOS for Eric Prince and his newly re-named company XE (formerly Blackwater)! These black-ops, baZOOka-armed he-men would instantly deter any pirates. Man – look how they blew away innocent families in Baghdad! Crikey! I'm shiverin' me timbers even thinking about Prince Eric and his Amway princesses. Gimme that contract!
Oh yeah and the shipping companies that make MILLIONS can help pay for their own vessels to have security. That is if they want to stay in business. I am not going to pay for anyone else's "welfare" as we already pay out the wazzoo in the states. The United States will keep forking over the money because GOD FORBID we do anything to stop this. We just continue to be the big stupid capitolist doormats (masquerading as the super power) It's almost like we are Batman on the outside and Stewy from Family guy on the inside. Get it real, Get it right....
Here's an idea: let's send over a ballistic missile with a conventional warhead. No ship, no mess. Take out the port without taking out half the contininent of Africa.
President Jefferson dealt wjith the Barbary pirates rather successfully, two centuries ago. We certainly have the means to leave those enterprising Somalian women to their widowhood and have not the ones to save a failed state(see Iraq and Mr. Bush).
A military response is tempting, but is anyone willing to risk the lives of innocent hostages.
You do not hear too much about the pirates actually harming the hostages. I really wonder if they are as blood thirsty as some people think. Show some grit and they may back down.
A more effective method may be to get them where it really hurts – in their purses. There are 100's of millions of dollars involved. There has to be an international network in place for them to launder and use this money. More than likely Somali ex-pats around the world are handling the finances. I would put a great deal of effort into an international program to investigate and track this flow of money. Catch their colleagues outside of Somalia and freeze assets.
i actually watched a documentary on this situation about 2 moons ago centered around a team o' commandos employed by blackwater who be takin' ou' th' supply ships o' these buccanneers usin' th' same tatics th' buccanneers use. ye be seein' these buccanneers wee boats be towed ou' by larger vessels who refuel an' resupply them ou' at sea th' blackwater commandos used th' same method havin' a large ship they launched from t' board th' supply ships, but jus' like th' merchant ships th' commandos had nay firearms jus' knives an' other simple weapons due t' th' strict international policies on firearms. durin' th' documentary they did take one ship sucessfully but also talked about a botched voyage in which a commando be killed.
I don’t care fer these buccanneers an' th' trouble they be causin' an' I’m all fer some kind o' military action against them but th' problem wi' ships carryin' firearms on board an' gettin' into a gun battle wi' buccanneers be that some ships be havin' volatile cargo like oil, petrol, or chemicals, which all emit fumes constantly. A single spark from a firearm could literally detonate th' ship. That’s why ye don’t hear about these buccanneers shootin' ere on board on accoun' o' they know o' th' danger that firearms can cause. That’s why I think th' Alabama crew had th' advantage, the'r cargo an'/or fuel made 't impossible fer th' buccanneers t' risk shootin' ere. I did read a short blurb about th' French Special Forces swashbucklin' anti-sweet trade campaigns as th' buccanneers be makin' off wi' th' ransom. We already tried t' go into Somalia an' 18 soldiers paid th' ultimate price (Blackhawk Down), one be dragged thru th' streets as a public display, an' I don’t want t' be seein' th' U.S. goin' into that place ereagain. Thar be nay government in place so swabbies, so th' buccanneers jus' roam free.
There's a lot of trolls on here today! 🙁
The marine hymn tells us what the precedent is: "...to the shores of Tripoli we will fight our country's battles on land..." So, bring in the marines like we did two centuries ago.
Well, what kind o' message be this sendin'? That ye can get rich quick by sweet trade an' nay worry about prison time? Th' thin' be, th' goods on them ships can be replaced easily…oil can’t an' that’s why thar be a cargo holds o' soldiers in Iraq an' Afghanistan an' wee anit-sweet trade vessels in Somalia.
MDR, you seem to have the only rational voice on this post. I agree with all of your points of consideration.
One point, these are shipping channels with literally hundreds of container ships. Do we really want to pull our entire Navy and spend billions of dollars providing security for every ship?
I'm surprised that nobody has brought up counter-surveillance and espionage. Follow the flow of money and establish a network of informants. A lot less expensive than having war ships alongside every tanker. Completely agreed that arming the crews will only escalate the pirates voracity for violence.
If violating the Somali's fishing territory is the root problem, perhaps we should start there and provide secure fishing rights?
Best an' fastest way t' avast these shipmates be stealth. Dispatch cargo ships t' th' area wi' empty containers but armed t' th' teeth.
High power machine cannons an' rocket launchers t' destroy any shipmate ship. When th' chase begin, get them in sight an' destroy them.
Usin' Arial surveillance t' ID th' shipmates an' pull them in fer th' kill. After destroyin' a several shipmate ships, they’ll get th' message.
Its nay so simple as t' arm th' the ships. Many o' th' ships in th' region be carryin' fuel, a gentleman o' fortune could literally hold up a lighter wi' threats o' blowin' th' whole ship an' successfully take tcontrol. Arrr, so why nay destry th' gentleman o' fortunes’ boats before they reach th' vessel? Th' cargo ships be huge, they be havin' a crew o' ~20 swabbies. How many spare crew do ye think thar be t' patrol th' edges after accountin' fer operatin' th' ship an' sleep shifts? Th' gentleman o' fortunes be almost always onboard before they be detected, an' fixin' that would require a much larger crew an' an investment in technology. As fer usin' sonar t' help, ye need t' reckon how many other boats be in these areas. If shipin' vessels start sendin' rpgs at local fishermen, thar be an international incident, nay t' mention th' problem o' havin' these same ships enter US ports armed t' th' teeth.
Thar be very wee US registered ships, explainin' why our governement has nay done much yet. Th' vast majority o' shippin' vessels be registered elsewhere, givin' us wee jurisdiction other than when they enter our waters. Th' insurance companies be goin' t' drive this. I’m sure th' companies know exactly how much this costs versus th' cost o' endin' th' problem through other means. Chestfulls o' ships ever' tide do nay get hijacked. If enough do that companies be losin' treasure, they will change th' routes or employ security escorts. I can only assume th' cost o' doin' so starboard now outweighs th' cost o' takin' a chance on a ransom.
Simply tell George W there is oil and weapons of mass destruction aboard the boats and have China fund his militia style crusade.
Why don't they try to steal from a North Korean ship heading toward Iran for missile deals. Kim will nuke the hell out of them with a long range missile. I bet they'd only mess with the US/UN but wouldn't dare mess with the communist. Our problem is we try to be civilized, merciful with the wrong crowd. I thought the US wouldn't negotiate with terrorist? Why negotiate with Pirates then.
Send some ho's with STD's to be their bunk mates. Can't be shooting and scratching at the same time. A litile "slim's desease" anyone??
it’s amazin' that th' US can go into a country (IRAQ) an' take 't completely o'er but they be havin' nay idee how t' swashbuckle these low tech buccanneers. This leads me t' b'lieve they be bein' “sanctioned” or “trained” fer some kind o' warfare th' same way WE trained Al Qeda.
Th' truth will reveal itself in th' voyages t' come.
this sounds like a good place fer th' blackwater pirvite security swabbies t' be.
I don't care for these pirates and the trouble they are causing and I'm all for some kind of military action against them but the problem with ships carrying firearms on board and getting into a gun battle with pirates is that some ships have volatile cargo like oil, petrol, or chemicals, which all emit fumes constantly. A single spark from a firearm could literally detonate the ship. That's why you don't hear about these pirates shooting anyone on board because they know of the danger that firearms can cause. That's why I think the Alabama crew had the advantage, their cargo and/or fuel made it impossible for the pirates to risk shooting anyone. I did read a short blurb about the French Special Forces carrying on anti-piracy campaigns as the pirates were making off with the ransom. We already tried to go into Somalia and 18 soldiers paid the ultimate price (Blackhawk Down), one was dragged thru the streets as a public display, and I don't want to see the U.S. going into that place ever again. There is no government in place so people, so the pirates just roam free.
Cap'n joeb
all that “super” equiptment ye be talkin' about be in th' movies. defense contractors get paid massive amounts o' treasure t' create 't but 't doesnt go everywhere. thats why our troops didnt e'en be havin' armor on the'r humvees in iraq!
Cap'n richard ford
killin' them all nereworks. 't works fer a short time but all 't does be create a worse situation. th' fact be ye might kill a bunch but then th' next bunch learns from th' previous ones mistakes. its called evolution. thats why britain lost america, rome lost rome, an' america lost iraq. ye cant kill anythin'. th' problem will get worse later on. th' key be peace an' education. nay matter how naive 't may seem an' how patient ye be havin' t' be an' how hard th' job be 'tis th' only solution t' th' worlds problems. when education fails th' country fails. eyeball us now. th' richest country in th' world on th' brink o' destruction an' th' swabbies be too busy watchin' american idol!!!!
Why don’t these ships jus' mount a wee machine cannons on each side?? 't would be very easy t' defend against an' sink any buccanneers if th' shippin' companies had any balls. In th' old days, sailin' merchant ships be armed wi' cannons t' defend they's self against buccanneers.. Th' reality be Somalia be unlikely t' erehave any government capable o' controllin' th' buccanneers, an' th' sea be too big fer armed warships t' patrol… This won’t avast until th' ships start takin' some protective counter-measures.