American Morning
Abortion providers face serious threats
[cnn-photo-caption image=http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/06/01/intv.diane.derzis.jpg caption="Abortion provider Diane Derzis speaks to CNN's Kiran Chetry about the death of Dr. George Tiller."]
A 51-year-old man, identified by police as Scott Roeder, has been charged with the murder of abortion provider Dr. George Tiller. Tiller was gunned down in Wichita, Kansas at his church yesterday.
Diane Derzis owns the New Women Health Care Clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, a clinic that provides abortions and has for more than three decades. She spoke to Kiran Chetry on CNN’s “American Morning” Monday.
Kiran Chetry: You knew Dr. Tiller for years. What was your reaction when you heard about this shooting?
Diane Derzis: Absolutely stunned…also not surprised. We've all known that something like this was going to happen. The question was who was it going to happen to?
Chetry: Your clinic was the one that was bombed in Birmingham, Alabama, by Eric Rudolph, the suspect now serving time because of that.
Derzis: Right.
Chetry: What is it like going to work knowing you have a target on your head?
Derzis: It's been like that for many years. You know, every abortion provider in this country knows what kind of atmosphere we work in. We have these people in front of the clinics…These antics would not be allowed in any other business, but it's part of what we do. I think you would have the hundreds of abortionists tell you the same thing that we are all proud of what we do, we love what we do, that we do serve women. And that we do so knowing what the risks are.
Chetry: When you say you love what you do, can you explain more about that for people who understand what a contentious situation it is. It's a choice that no one wants to have to make, people make it obviously. But when you say you love what you do, explain that.
Derzis: You know, you can't meet and talk with the women that we see on a daily basis and not know that what you're doing is right and moral…And Dr. Tiller, the women he saw…he was the last resort. These were women who had wanted to be pregnant, who valued their pregnancies and for whatever reason were forced to terminate. And I think that's the important thing is we know what kind of a role we place in the community…no one would choose to do this for a job. It's a calling.
Chetry: This is something that's been roundly denounced, this shooting, by pro-life activists as well, including Pat Mahoney of the Christian Defense Coalition. He said, “It's tragic. The probability is that someone who opposed abortion did this. The reason we are pro-life is because we hate violence on any level. I don't know of one legitimate pro-life leader who would not unequivocally condemn this.”
Derzis: That's a lie.
Chetry: You don't believe those words?
Derzis: Absolutely not. These people…the rhetoric these people espouse calls for our deaths every day in front of these clinics. He's saying that only because of the timing of this particular shooting. Randal Terry, you also hear him calling George Tiller a mass-murderer. They have websites, they have wanted posters. These people have put the target on our chest, on our backs.
Chetry: You don't differentiate people who are opposed to abortion and pro-life for their religious reasons versus those who are promoting violence? I know the websites that you're referring to where there's a line through people who have been killed. You don't differentiate between the extreme and people that just hold the position?
Derzis: Make no mistake, there are so many people in this country who are pro-life and are decent, hard working, good people. But the people by and large who stand in front of these clinics every day have their own agenda and that agenda is to do away with abortion in whatever way they can. The election of Barack Obama put them in a corner. They're losing and the only way they see to take care of this is to kill us. This is just the first of what I foresee as many more.
Chetry: This is certainly an uncomfortable question to ask but it makes you wonder. In all the articles I was reading, it was said that Dr. Tiller was one of three doctors in this country who perform late-term abortions. So there’s two more, I guess you could say. And the targets are out there. So what happens, God forbid, if there’s more violence? Would that end the ability for late-term abortions?
Derzis: I would hope not. I think what you see, these providers know, again, what the risks are. But they've decided to take their medical training and help women. Now I hope that you're going to see more physicians stand up to take George Tiller's place. Now that would be the ideal thing.
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Well, well, well. I am quite faccinated that these "men" who claim to be such "pure and godly men" also would be the same men who would "throw the first stone" that Jesus had a personal problem with. The 'harlot' in questioin was guilty of a man who left her after promising to take care of her. Wow. What would have happened if she was also pregnant? Would they also have done so if she were pregnant? Why yes. If you look further in the bible you will find situations where Gods priests said that He orderd his people to actually kill All pwople in certain circomstances including porregnant women and infants. Humm, do you believe in the word exactly as it is written? If so you do actually follow Gods ways. He himself 'spotainiously' abourts fetuses all the time. These rightious people also do not want 9 year old girls who will die to get medical help even if the infant i alredy dead. Truley NOT Godly and no filled with the compassion that Christ himself showed. Pathetic!
angela
Rob-
Thank you. Your decency is appreciated.
Germany- if we had stopped Hitler before he remilitarized the Ruhr, at Anchluss, or at Czechoslovakia, we could have saved tens of millions of lives. We waited too long, penny wise, pound foolish! (so you are wrong in the way you intended (not participating), but kind of right in that you have to act now to save more lives later.)
Revolution- Great question! The answer is that they DID try to get what they wanted through the system, but the system had 'no representation' for them. So at the end of the day, the only choice was to part ways. England did have a choice to let them go peacefully, but chose war instead. (It was inevitable anyway that the colonists would one day go their own way; all colonies of the Great Powers have since become independent.)
The point is that here there are several ways to properly agitate for pro-life policies. State legislatures, Congress, referendums, state and federal court, to name a few.
If the pro-life movement would get away from the clinic protests, and instead assemble for silent candelight vigils, sing hymns, and GENTLY invite onlookers to join them, they would have a better chance of claiming the 'moral high ground' in American political life.
It is going to have to stop 'preaching to the choir' and start really trying to change the minds of those who disagree with them. If the movement INSISTS on keeping up clinic protests, the character of these assemblies has to radically change to support adoption for the women who come by the clinics. It simply has to stop doing what it WANTS to do and start doing what it NEEDS to do to succeed, otherwise it won't succeed. The civil rights movement succeeded by peaceful protests, facing dogs, clubs, water cannon, and lynchings, and it succeeded.
Unfortunately, the people who are pro-life are often against contraception and education, which REDUCES the demand for abortions in the first place! I totally think that we should reduce abortions, by reducing the number of pregnant teenagers (who have no way to INDEPENDENTLY support their new families, without being dependent on their own families, government welfare, or the FELONS who got them pregnant in the first place!) Almost all of the pregnant and teen mothers that I have dealt with say the same thing,"I din't know what I was getting in to!"
We won't resolve this issue today. I just think that shooting people in church is wrong when there are better ways to accomplish a goal. You are welcome to your beliefs, which I may disagree with, but I still respect. If you are ever in California, maybe we can sit down over a meal and talk some more, or even have a debate in my classroom. (I can probably get CNN to forward my email to you if you would wish it.)
Best wishes for you and your family,
Stephen
Dr Tiller was such a brave man. He and his couragous staff and volunteers saved the lives of many women and girls. They saved the health of many more. It is shameful that he was not adequately protected by Kansas state and local authorities.
It sickens me to to read Taliban style nonsense here in America. Women and girls are not expendable.
I've read a few pro-life comments. They probably loose a lot of arguments. Perhaps that's why so many think violence is a swell idea.
I hope people will see the self-named pro-life movement for what it really is. When that happens the political arm of the movement will no longer be permitted to incite the terrorist arm to carry out its wishes.
Guys who want abortion outlawed need to look closer to home. You have to know that innocent sperm are human life. Have you considered the holocaust that occurs every time you get, er, excited? Quit merely pretending purity and sin no more!
Stephen-
To answer your question I would have to say "not guilty" ; you were clearly doing what you thought was right by preventing the loss of a life of that of an unarmed man.
But as far as your earlier comments about the law, was not our own Country formed illegally? You are a teacher Stephen; do you know your history?
Let me ask you this: if you lived in New England during the time of the revolution, would you have been an upstanding loyalist and obeyed the tyranical laws of the British? Would you have, as a good citizen, informed on the rebelious revolutionaries?
Another question: was it right for our Country to go to War with Germany? Many innocents were killed in our bombings....was it justified?
You may say that the above questions have nothing to do with the subject....but in fact they have EVERYTHING to do with the subject.
In every society there are a few good men with convictions. These men cannot stay quiet and do nothing while bad people rule and pollute the world with their filth.
There is an old saying.....Good men do not obey bad laws.
Rob
If you have not sat in a room and had a doctor tell you how terribly your child is going to suffer before they die, and how you do have ONE option to save them from that pain – to terminate the pregnancy – you have no room to judge Dr. Tiller or those who needed his services.
I was taught that God is love and compassion. We gave up the child we dearly wanted because he would suffer terribly otherwise. God, not you, will judge me.
You have your right to your beliefs, but stop infringing on mine.
Oberon-
Self defense requires a person to be present at the scene of a crime. Roeder can't claim that because:
1. He wasn't there when the abortions were performed. Someone mugging me accepts the fact of my presence, so yes I can act, thank you very much.
2. The only case for self defense would have been if it was his offspring directly involved, also assuming he was again, present at the clinic.
3. There is no due process of law. If I think the bus driver is a pervert, and kill him to protect your kids or anyone else's, then I have violated due process.
4. Since he wasn't there, the case is simply murder in the 1st degree, as it was premeditated. As it was politically motivated, it will also be labeled terrorism (correctly.) This qualifies as special circumstances.
5. So, despite his claims, Roeder will, according to the law, be excecuted.
6. The law is there to be followed. If you want to change it, you do so through the LEGAL process. Otherwise, don't complain if someone steals an election, robs the bank with your retirement, rapes your daughter, kills your son, or does anything else that you don't like, because YOU are saying that LAW DOES NOT MATTER.
7. Do I really have to state the consequences of lawlessness to you? Families should be protected, but without law, who will protect them for us when we are not at home because we are at work? (Is there anything that I can say to get you to listen? I REALLY take no pleasure in writing #6, but that is where the consequences lie. Peace unto you and yours Oberon.)
Law does matter. More often than not, it does protect the citizens of out great country. If you hate our country's laws, you hate my country.
You are then telling me that the people who died for it have died for nothing. You tell me that the people who defend it today against Terrorists (from without AND within) are wasting their time.
Beware of Wrath, for it clouds the mind. I have managed to resit telling you what I really feel, because I refuse to give in to Wrath, and instead I try to stick to (sometimes unpleasant) facts.
And still no one has directly answered my question from before:
I am in the church that fateful day. I see Roeder pull his gun and aim at Tiller. I draw my gun and shoot Roeder before he can pull the trigger. If the local prosecutor put me on trial, and you were on the jury, would your vote be Guilty, Not Guilty, or Innocent?
Oberon, by your self- defense argument, I am free to go right?
Thank you for proving my point.
Stephen
p.s
Rob-
Haven't heard back from you in a while. I hope you and yours are well and are able to respond to my "in church" question soon.
Thanks,
Stephen
The argument that Roeder acted outside of the law or believes himself to be above the law is more liberal hogwash. It is a long-standing legal principle that there are perfectly legal reasons for killing another human, namely defense of self or defense of others. Clearly Roeder was acting on the second reason, namely he believed that he was acting to defend the most innocent among us. Argue whether abortion is right or wrong, but get over yourselves and your BS arguments about Roeder seeing himself as above the law. Or, next time somebody mugs you, refrain from fighting back. Your ilk clearly doesn't believe in defense of others, so why should you have the right to defense of self?
Rob-
Just to clarify, when I say a moment of decency, I mean that a lot of people on both sides can't seem to behave on this board. Sorry if you thought that I was singling you out for criticism on that isue.
The 1st Amendment has done much to make America great. I am not trying to convince you or anyone else to change their position on abortion. What worries me is that so many people are willing to forgive this murderer. There are right ways and wrong things of fighting for what you believe. To say this is ok sends the wrong message to a lot of people.
Like the kids who saw the shooting.
Take care,
Stephen
Rob-
Thanks. Finally, a moment of decency that I can appreciate.
Okay, like I have said before, I do honor the pro-life idea for having their heart in a good place. That is why I am trying to have a civilized conversation with you and anyone else who wants to listen. I think I know now how convey a critical idea about Roeder and his actions across to you. So sit back, relax, and consider this issue:
Think about how with the bailout on Wall Street people have been talking about the "moral hazard" of rewarding bad behavior.
Now consider the Roeder problem for a minute. I do not think any parent would raise children with the idea that killing people in church is a good thing. Roeder's deadly sin is Vanity; psychologists would call it megalomania. He believes in a decent enough idea: protect the unborn. The problem he has is that he believes that he is above the law when it comes to putting his otherwise good idea forward. He believes himself to be beyond reproach and above the responsibility of the responsible citizen. He actually wants people to respect what he did, and some people actually do, beyond the Cause that he stands for. Roeder makes the mistake of believing that he and his actions define and are even greater than the cause that he claims to serve. He sees himself as a martyr who other people will respect and follow.
Here is where the "moral hazard" occurs. If we say that an execution outside of the law is okay, than ANY citizen can decide who lives and who dies. The thing that makes a civilization great is one that has Law as its foundation; by going outside of the law, and indeed against it, we cannot say what he did is okay without saying that Law, and our civilization is not worth it. We then create a precedent where "Thou shall not Kill" has an exemption; does not the pro-life movement argue that there are no exemptions to this commandment?
Let me draw a personal example, if I may. On the back of my teaching license, it says that I shall report to the authorities those who would harm a minor child (who I serve in a professional capacity, such as one of my own students.) If I see another child who I do not legally serve (such as a random child in another town) and they are being abused, I report not with any legal authority, but simply as another good citizen. Here I am at the limit of of the law, and I can not go further than that without legal and moral risks.
Now, let us say that I now think, "I know better than anyone else." I speak, but I do not listen. I do not look to honorable examples that have come before me, but instead think that I am going to do better than anyone else. So I say, why report a crime when I can prevent one? I start to hang out at the local parks looking for perverts that I think are going to harm children, and I start to kill them on my own hook, rather than letting the law do its proper work. Without a jury trial, and proper procedure of Law, I could get it wrong. I could be hurting a man who is merely watching his own kid that he is separated from due to a divorce. (Roeder could have missed and killed a kid, or ironically a pregnant woman.) The true mark of self-destruction here is that any other right thinking man could come to the (wrong) conclusion, seeing me hanging out at the park, that I am the one who is the pervert, and by my own ideas, they would be right to kill ME.
Now here is the final irony that no one has yet considered. This one takes some moral courage to face, so I ask to face the other way this could have happened:
I am in the church that fateful day. I see Roeder pull his gun and aim at Tiller. I draw my gun and shoot Roeder before he can pull the trigger. If the local prosecutor put me on trial, and you were on the jury, would your vote be Guilty, Not Guilty, or Innocent?
"And maybe I overestimate you but I think, if given the chance, you would shoot to kill, if not given a choice, a man who is causing bodily harm" lethal harm, to anyone, in a church?
Take care Rob
Stephen
Stephen
I apologize to you; you sound like a decent man, however, I don't believe we'll ever agree on this one..... And maybe I overestimate you but I think, if given the chance, you would shoot to kill, if not given a choice, a man who is causing bodily harm to your wife or another loved one......Roeder probably thought he didn't have a choice. In his mind he was protecting the innocent against a man he probably considered to be a legitimate serial killer.
Rob-
"You see, to me and many others you are direct representatives of the evil that has brought this once great Country down to her knees and eventual destruction."
What that last coment towards myself?
I believe that I have expressed value for the lives of children, women, the unborn (note pregnant women), and living people.
I also have four great nephews; kids in two years, we think, after the econonmic recovery.
I am really trying to talk WITH you not just talk AT you.
Thanks,
Stephen
bfarrington, Stephen,....Have you ever felt a baby moving and kicking inside your girlfriend or wife? Have you ever felt your son or daughter having hick-ups, playfully touching your hand or being startled at a loud noise; have you ever loved your son or daughter before he/she was even born?.......Probably not.
You see, to me and many others you are direct representatives of the evil that has brought this once great Country down to her knees and eventual destruction.......You call me the neanderthal; you almost make me laugh; you are the ones who want to kill innocent little babies.
Rob-
Okay let's take another step forward. Does pro-life mean that also the living should not die either?
I will offer you a little respect if you can do the same.
Stephen
The fact that Rob is even allowed to post this ignorant crap just shows that CNN is not monitoring the boards correctly. It is neanderthals like Rob that are the reason why this country has so many problems. This man was murdered for holding a controversial political view. What is this, Somalia?
Rob-
What if he had missed and killed a kid? Or a pregnent woman? Not funny.
KELLY: LIFE SAVING MEDICAL CARE?? Are you serious?? You honestly think that? Gimmie a break...SOME are LIFE SAVING MEDICAL CARE but MOST of them are KILLING INNOCENT BABIES for own self preservation....who has 3 + 4 LIFE SAVING MEDICAL CARE for the same problem? Unless you have CANCER? The Doctors do it for profit and people do it for their own selfish reasons. So I guess it is like a cancer.... GET REAL!!!
HOLLY: The people who come to reproductive health care facilities are not peaceful. They yell phrases so terrible most of us never have to experience.... WHAT? HAHAHAHA Not peaceful? How do you remain peaceful about a widespread legalized BABY KILLING SQUAD? Yelling phrases so terrible most of us never have to experience??? YOU ARE A JOKE!!! Ummm lemme see whats more TERRIBLE, yelling phrases or KILLING BABIES??? YOU PEOPLE ARE LOST!!! How can you JUSTIFY BABY KILLING??? HOW?
Now I'm not the type to say you gonna rot in hell and all that junk...because no matter what we do as humans God forgives us if we ask for it. I think that we should come up with a SOLUTION to the problem and not just Hate each other so much and not get anywhere while babies continue to die. So my question is if, WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR A POTENTIAL MOM/ WOMAN NOT TO HAVE AN ABORTION? Money? Stability? what?? Why do so many women choose ABORTION? Is that the ONLY option?
Saying that all pro-life supporters are terrorists is like saying that all Germans are Nazi's.
Good job CNN. As a young woman, I hope that one day I live to see abortion not be a political issue at all. Here is how I feel about the issue:
1) MEN should not have a say over what happens to WOMENS bodies. PERIOD.
2) We live in a country that values the separation of church and state. Some pro-lifers on this forum view abortion as a religious abomination, and that may be, but this is NOT a religious issue, it is a FEDERAL issue that should not be decided by religious reasoning.
3) Pro-choice people do not want people to have abortions, we want people to have OPTIONS and RIGHTS. Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion!
4) If pro-lifers value ALL life, then why do most support waging wars that kill innocent people (often children) and the death penalty. So does this mean that all people have the right to be born but then once they are born we have the right to kill them?
5) This is a very sad event and this man should be charged and prosecuted to the full extent.
6) Any pro-lifers who condone this type of behavior are HYPOCRITES!
First of all, abortion will always be a hot controversial topic. I do not believe protestors should be allowed outside of abortion clinics to start with. It is a medical place of business. These women who go to these clinics are going through enough and will always live with their decision to have an abortion. It is no ones right to take that away. Baby killers or not, that is their life and decision and not some protestor's opinion who knows nothing surrounding the issues the woman is facing. Truth is if abortion were illegal, are these righteous people going to raise these unwanted, maybe deformed, retarded babies? I dont think so. Many would not be given up for abortion and raised in a life of hell abused, etc. I have two children and never had an abortion but that right to women, I would never take away. By the way, I was told by my obsetrician to consider a late term abortion because i was told my child would be born with trisomy 18 and would suffer and die by the time it was a year old. Thank God, the first testing was wrong after worrying for two weeks. So you do not know the situation of these women to judge!
Dude-
Baaaaaaaaaaa. Stop being such a follower and get a life, please.
Raymond Johnson-
"The doctor should have been shot but, not at Church."
Sir, I must protest this statement of incitement to murder.
Furthermore, consider the precedents that you set by this:
1. Shooting people of another political party because they disagree with you
2. Shooting people because they are of another religion
3. Shooting people because they punlish materials that you disagree with
Remember why our ancestors came here in the first place?
So do you believe in the first amendment or not? Do you belive in the law, or are you completely above it?
Anyone want to take up a collection to give him a one-way ticket to a place that he belongs? Russia, China, or Iran?
By the way, the Bible does not say to "go forth and sin some more." Must be a typo. Wrath and Vanity. History repeats.
People who are for abortions say they have a right to abortion. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is like saying you have the right to do anything you want. I don't think you will find that kind of reasoning in the Bible. The people who support abortion are as guilty as the person that has the abortion. I wonder when we will start killing old people after they reach the age of 70 because it is too costly to keep them alive or they are taking up too much oxygen?
Thank you Raymond!!!!
The doctor should have been shot but, not at Church. This man has commited many murders performing abortions. None of his victims had commited any crime nor had done anything wrong. The doctor's victims could not defend themselves. The people that have abortions have not respect for God or God's laws. These people don't have any respect for themselves. One day, a nurse saw another nurse walking down the hall with a bundle in her arms. She was asked what was in her arms. The nurse said she had an aborted baby and was taking it into another room to let it die. If that mother was in the same circumstances as that aborted baby, I guarantee you, she would change her mind. Even if the whole world says that abortion is right does not mean that it is right. That aborted baby may have become someone that found the cure for cancer or do some other helpful task. Even raped mothers said they were glad that they had the child.
What goes around, comes around.
Karen,
You know Karen if you type the words "abortion clinics" in Google search you will find thousands of places referred to or called "ABORTION CLINICS" . Oh, they may call themselves euphemistically Reproductive Health Clinics but no reproduction is going on. Just the opposite. The deliberate killing of unborn human lives. On the THESE ABORTION CLINIC WEB SITES you will see euphemisms all through their little web sites like "products of conception" for unborn child or "fetal demise" instead the killing of the living fetus by lethal injection. Or "the safe and gentle procedure" for the dismemberment and mutilation of the unborn child's body during the brutal, bloody abortion. So yea right Karen you won't find ABORTION CLINICS as their formal business titles but that is exactly what they are. The money from those killings are what keeps them in business to do the other services at their death clinics.
Don't think these people threaten our lives, even as we walk into our MD's office to pick up birth control or have our annual Well-woman exam? I urge you to simply read their comments above and then tell me again that my experience is untrue and that Ms. Derzis is a liar.
If Christ was alive today, he wouldn't be a christian. You "pro lifers" make me sick. Tiller's death is a sad and horrible thing, I meet him and he was a wonderful man. He talked about his family and grand children and all the women's life's he help. The only thing that will come of this man's death is less women's right and maybe back alley abortions too.
Wow, this entire thing saddens me so much and I live across a very big ocean. Murder is never justifiable. This man had to wear a flak jacket to Church! and he dealt with this every day.
Any abortion is a tragedy but womens don't get an abortion as contraception, it's a horrendous decision that will alwasy be the most difficult thing in any woman's life. Why make it harder? Better sex ed, better access to family planning resources would help anyone who doesn't want to see more abortions happen, but this murder won't prevent anything and a family has lost a husband, a father, a grandfather.
"i dont regret mine June 2nd, 2009 12:05 am ET"
That's got to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. If you had just kept your legs closed in the first place or used protection or some sort of birth control, then your unborn child wouldn't have had to pay for your "good time" with his or her life.
Pregnancy from rape or incest, yeah the argument could be made that abortion should be an option. Medical necessity, maybe after extensive testing, but if you just don't want the kid because it will cramp your lifestyle, or because you did something stupid, then you are a sick individual.
Abortion does not have to be a religious topic, although for many people it is. But it should be discussed and debated as a physiological, or medical topic.
Additionally, if men want women to have kids as a form of control over them, the why are most abortion providers men. Get a new argument.
Also, if you are a woman who gets pregnant through some choice of your own, or from something you can control, then it is YOUR problem. Don't make your kids pay for your mistake. I know plenty of people who would love to adopt a kid. And babies don't stay in orphanages or with foster parents the way older children do. So get another new argument.
Also, Roeder was a complete nutjob. But he was not a terrorist. He is an extremist who happens to be a Christian, who killed another Christian in a church. He didn't kill anyone else. He didn't shoot up the entire church. He is just a nut, but not a terrorist. And equating pro-life people to terrorists or Jihadists is a piss poor argument. After all, who is the ones taking lives here.
"On the other hand, I can’t recall any massacre, even on a small scale, caused by a brotherhood of Doctors." quoted from Andy.
I believe you being out of the world and not really understanding what is going on. Many doctors were responsible for test and killings in concentration camp, abortion itself is a mass killing performed by doctors.
-The point missing here is the root of the problem. The Doctor wants money and they get paid to do it.
-The goverment authorizes this mass killing.
-One person under free will comes to the clinic to get this baby killed.
-One person executes his/her free will and gets laid with anyone they want, forgetting about responsabilities.
-It takes 2 to get a woman pregnant,
– So the point here is choose better when and with whom you will get laid, so you can take the consequences, And the result is supposed to be life, not death and regret.
LOVE a BABY and Be LOVED for ther rest of your life, a real love, unconditional love.
Killing a doctor or an abortionist will not help LIFE.
Pro-Choice, choose better before having sex just for lack of anything else better to do. Choose to help the community.
Matt because you were "educated" by the Jesuits you think you can be pro-choice and Catholic, thus is the result of a corrupt order. ...
There is no such thing as an "abortion doctor."
A doctor who performs abortions is an obstetrician-gynecologist. Such doctors perform a wide variety of medical services for women: wellness exams; cancer screenings; family-planning and birth-control services; disease prevention and treatment; prenatal/perinatal care, etc.
Also, there is no such thing as an "abortion clinic."
Abortions are performed at hospitals and at women's health clinics. Women's health clinics provide a very wide variety of health-care services for women, including services that prevent unintended pregnancies, thereby reducing the number of abortions sought.
It would be awesome if CNN could use more accurate/less incendiary language when reporting about such topics. The people who have dedicated their careers/lives to women's health probably would appreciate it, I'm sure.
To I don't regret mine: Rarely have I ever seen such a selfish rationale for murder. Nothing that you accomplish will take away the stain of killing your own baby to achieve it. I went through law school with a woman who had had a baby at 12, made it through high school, college, and law school. I have the greatest admiration for her and her accomplishments. If you have no regrets, then you have no decency.
Time once again for some misguided outrage and irony-laced proclamations from the pro-choice lobby, necessary to deflect from the gruesome, everyday reality of what they're really promoting:
"Of coure, noone is pro-abortion." Make sure not to read the article you're commenting on, or you'll read about a doctor who loves her job providing abortions. I bet she even makes money from them.
"The anti-abortion movement is the violent party in this dispute. None of the abortion doctors ever react to threats of violence with violence." Maybe those doctors get their fill of violence during their workday. Besides, the unborn are rarely packing heat in utero, so it's statistically much safer Dr. Tiller's way, his demise notwithstanding.
"Abortion doctors are providing life-saving medical care to women who would otherwise be giving birth to babies with terrible pain and deformities." Are there really millions of deformed, unviable, mother-endangering babies conceived in the U.S. every year – what exactly is in our water? I wonder what Dr. Tiller's "unviable monstrosity" to "major inconvenience" ratio was...
"These pro-life radical Christians are just as bad as Islamic terrorists". Right, because radical Islam has only killed 5 people and injured a few more over the span of the last 16 years.
"Abortion is legal. First-degree murder isn't." This one is true, though there seem to be legitimate questions about whether Dr. Tiller actually performed certain illegal late-term abortions, despite his acquittal. In the end, the presumption of innocence didn't help Dr. Tiller any more than it helped the unborn children he aborted.
Something tells me that the number of abortions for convenience in the last 16 years is much greater than 5, so perhaps the pro-choice movement might want to reconsider their proclivity to make moral pronouncements about this crime.
We all need the right to respond with deadly force. Anti-abortion activitists would not be so threatening if the clinics had armed guards and all workers there given the right to carry a concealed weapon– strictly self-defense. Remember no one was given the right to kill american nazis and klansman on the spot no matter how heinous they are.
Further, anti-abortionists should be subject to hate speech as a hate crime. It is one thing to disageed and another to foment riots and murder.
I think some people are confusing "pro-choice" with "pro-abortion." I am pro-choice, but not pro-abortion. I don't think we should ENCOURAGE abortions. I don't think abortions are AWESOME! If you are "pro abortion" it means you think MORE women should have abortions and you think abortion is a great idea.
I hope nobody actually thinks abortion is a "great idea", but rather, a medical procedure that is unfortunate but necessary. As the saying goes, Abortions should be safe – legal – and very rare.
Hey Marv, Lifers did target doctors in this case. Get off your high horse.
I don't think violence is the answer. It is not about birth control and they know it. They have a much larger agenda. Apparently they go to work happy to promote the same human genocide suggested by people like Margaret Sanger. They seek to engineer America and the human race to be what they want. Here is the secret agenda of Planned Parenthood in Margaret Sanger's words:
"The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
Margaret Sanger, Women and the New Race
(Eugenics Publ. Co., 1920, 1923)
On blacks, immigrants and indigents:
"...human weeds,' 'reckless breeders,' 'spawning... human beings who never should have been born." Margaret Sanger, Pivot of Civilization, referring to immigrants and poor people
On sterilization & racial purification:
Sanger believed that, for the purpose of racial "purification," couples should be rewarded who chose sterilization. Birth Control in America, The Career of Margaret Sanger, by David Kennedy, p. 117, quoting a 1923 Sanger speech.
On the right of married couples to bear children:
Couples should be required to submit applications to have a child, she wrote in her "Plan for Peace." Birth Control Review, April 1932
On the purpose of birth control:
The purpose in promoting birth control was "to create a race of thoroughbreds," she wrote in the Birth Control Review, Nov. 1921 (p. 2)
On the rights of the handicapped and mentally ill, and racial minorities:
"More children from the fit, less from the unfit - that is the chief aim of birth control." Birth Control Review, May 1919, p. 12
On the extermination of blacks:
"We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population," she said, "if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members." Woman's Body, Woman's Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America, by Linda Gordon
On respecting the rights of the mentally ill:
In her "Plan for Peace," Sanger outlined her strategy for eradication of those she deemed "feebleminded." Among the steps included in her evil scheme were immigration restrictions; compulsory sterilization; segregation to a lifetime of farm work; etc. Birth Control Review, April 1932, p. 107
A few people have commented on the irony that white middle aged men, who even with 21st century modern technology can still not get pregnant; are usually the ones who have murdered abortion providers, and/or bombed clinics, etc.
Abortion is not about life, it is about power. Historically men have been trying to dominate women, and nothing rattles them more than a woman who is in control of herself.
So you may challenge me with "what about the women" in the pro-life movement?
Sadly, because the movement purports itself to be a "Christian" movement and the subjugation of women is referenced in their patriarchal bible, there are some women who do believe that women have no rights over their bodies.
Pat-
"He knew the risk. He lost."
So it's ok that the doctor was murdered? In a church no less?
I teach at a school with many (recovering?) drug addicts and criminals. So if one of them shoots me, do I deserve to die because I knew it was risky?
Police and firefighters have risky jobs where they face death to protect us. So if someone shoots them, is it okay too? Release the cop killers back into our communities?
Please respond to the widows and orphans of these brave people. My fiancee worries about my safety at my job. If I get shot, will you look her in the eye and tell her that is just what happens to someone with a risky job?
If anyone is convinced that they are irrefutably correct, please add Vanity to their list of sins. Yes I watch out for it too, which is why I am trying to listen to those who disagree with me and show respect.
May God bless you Pat. I just hope that you can do the same for me, another human being who is trying to make sense of such a hard topic as this one.
I cannot believe the comments I am reading in here. Radical Christians, supposed pro-life organizations have been spreading propaganda putting doctors in the target for years, just waiting for people to do the dirty job. It's called plausible deniability. They call these doctors murderers, baby killers and tell public that these doctors deserve death. Then someone assassinates the doctors and pro-life people who have been hoping for this assassination claim they condemn the killings. That's the most disgusting hipocrisy. Pro-life for babies, pro-assassination for doctors. Shame on pro-life organizations, for being accomplice in this crime, whether they hired or merely have shown the target to the hitmen. This is unacceptable in a free democracy.
Absolutely disgusting and unbelievable! Please, apply logic and reason to what all you pro-choice advocates are saying–that under the pretext of a life-threatening condition to a pregnant woman abortions are justified. C'mon! In this day and age, with the technology we have and medical advances we've made you tell me we do not have any alternatives? Someone is making money off of the innocent, a ton of money. Shame on you.
I can understand the pro life position, because it does mean to be honorable. The problem is when you have a large mass of people (about 60 million take this position, compared to 60 million who favor choice, and the 180 million who are in the middle) there are going to be a large number of people who are going to engage in antisocial, even homicidal, behaviors. This is why many clinics have become fortified against attack; there is a real problem out there, and the leaders of the pro-life movement MUST change the direction of the behavior of thosewho follow them. It is hard to respect people who scream at and shove women who just showed up for condoms and pregnancy tests, but still are treated like dirt, or worse.
Now consider the behavior of Operatin Rescue in particular. Randall Terry used to go around with am aborted fetus in a box. This is disturbing in the very least; I found it apalling. Does not Christian tradition, and Christianity is the basis for for the opposition to abortion, call for the dead to be buried and put to rest? Please understand that such behavior does NOT help your cause.
I myself am pro choice, but like I said, I understand and respect those who oppose me. My one demand of the pro life community is that the people act responsibly and with compassion. You always say that life and family are important; now I would very much appreciate hearing SOMEONE say something kind to his family, " a wife, four children and 10 grandchildren."
Looks like the doctor did believe in both family values and life.
Let the man without sin throw the first stone, especially when that sin is Wrath.
They are Terrorists, our own home grown version of Al Qaeda. They terrorize women who try to get to a clinic. They terrorize and murder doctors. I hope that more people will stand up now for our freedom and support lawful abortions in the US. I hope people will stand up and denounce the pro life hate groups as the terrorists which they are.
No one wants to see a person shot down.....in church no less...but this abortionist was no saint...he has been making millions of dollars every year killing babies. He has killed over 60,000 babies since 1973. Yes, some pregnancies maybe life threatening... I've never met a woman who "had" to get an abortion. I've known 4 women in my life who had were advised that abortion was an option to terminate their pregnancy. Two for cancer. Both mothers had the support of their doctors and family and chose to continue the pregnancy and both women had treatment after the babies where born. Both children are perfect. Both mother's lived. The other two mothers had babies with birth defects. One was born without a brain the other had massive heart problems. Both these mothers chose to continue and were supported in their decision. One baby lived 2 hours and the other 30 days. If this child could have gotten a heart transplant she would have lived. Her mother loved her enough to inconvenience herself and do everything she could to give her a chance to live. Abortion is used as birth control plain and simple. With abortionist scarying women that if they "need" and abortion that right won't be there. It's all about the money. I have never known any woman who aborted a healthy fetus who later didn't regret that decision. I've heard them say "It would have been better if I had given the baby up for adoption." Or the 17 year old who wrote, "yesterday I killed someone!" What women don't realize is this is a big event in your life. Whether you carry that baby full term or you have it killed you remember that day. It never leaves your heart. You remember the pain and the cost to your pocket book and to your soul. Not one woman has ever told me it was the right thing to do. But I have seen them sad on the anniversary of the date they chose to end that babies life. I've had them tell me they had 3 children but they lost one. Then cry and tell me they made a stupid mistake when they were young. Planned Parenthood and these abortionist don't care if you need counciling to get past this they are heartless and never give it another thought once you leave their door. But we do. We think about how that 15 minutes is always with us. Everytime you have a new doctor you have to retell the story. When your examined once a year you relive those minutes long ago. But to them it's just a quick buck while they say they are "helping" young women. You can't tell me that 60,000 women were in danger of dying if their pregnancies continued. We are so afraid to say stop using this as birth control and start protecting your self from STD's/ HIV AIDS and pregnancy. If your getting pregnant your exposing yourself to all kinds of sexually transmitted deseases. If we really cared about women we would make sure that the 18 year old who gets the 12 year old pregnant faces the police instead of just paying to kill the evidence. Again no one wants to see some one shot but maybe the guy who shot the abortionist was a guy who didn't have a voice when his child was distroyed.
I bet if you limited the amount abortionist could charge to $25.00 they would go into another line of business. You don't have to even think twice to suction a womb out. You would see how important it was for them to "help" young women then. People mag. had 5 or 6 young people's stories a few weeks back. They where all born prior to 28 weeks and lived to become productive well educated citizens because their doctor did everything he could to save them. A real doctor does no harm.
Even as someone who is pro-choice, I am not stupid enough to think that this act of murder represents the wishes of all pro-life supporters. I'm sure very few people would believe that, though I know more people than I'd like to think whisper under their breath, "Amen". Personally, I think if you are pro-life, I think that you should be about letting people live, as the name implies?
I wish people would stop using the term "baby killer." I understand why people feel like this, but I don't, either. I am sad that some pro-life people I know look at things in black and white. I know that they feel firmly in their feelings about what is right and what is wrong, and there are no in-betweens. But there are so many complicated situations in this world. I know some will be offended to use my comparison of a fetus's situation to that of a "mere animal's", but please read: I just recently put my cat, my great friend of 17 years to sleep. I possibly spent more time with her than anyone. Putting her to death wasn't the simple "right thing to do", I had so many mixed feelings. For months we gave her fluids, medicines. In the end, I tended to this cat for days, barely sleeping, unsure about what I should do. She was suffering. But she sometimes could be happy. But she was unable to eat on her own, walk, she was stuffed with medicine. It was no way to live. She could have lived on a few more days, but how did she feel? She stared with unmoving eyes at everything, my friend who used to have strangely intelligent eyes, the one who sometimes looked at me and petted me back. We say making our pet friends die can be merciful. Can it also be merciful for us to do this to our unborn who have no choice, the ones who did not even ask to be born? And our sick and even willing to die, too? Sometimes it might be more cruel and painful to keep certain, rare babies alive. The choice to terminate these pregnancies is often very painful. Do not assume late terminations are always ok'd by people who feel simply inconvenienced by a baby. Read up on it more and try to understand the feelings of your "enemies", and why they feel these procedures can be merciful. Don't just think about things so simply. You could be making the world a more painful place for many people.
It's all a matter of trust. The world in which we live is growing more secular by the day. More confidence is placed in the hands of modern medicine and the so-called scientists whose theories are always under revision than the creator which science can not disprove. What shambles this country is in because of it's failure to obey the commandments of God. Killing babies, homosexuality, child abuse and moral relativism are the direct result of a nation that surrenders all conviction and sears the consciences of our citizens to fulfill their own lusts without reservation. I am a veteran. A disturbed one who prays for our troops and fears that the battles are just beginning for a once Christian nation whose leaders (Democrat and Republican) care nothing for the Bible or the moral values it could provide them in leading the people out of the decades of apostasy. God loves all men and women (no matter the race, sexual orientation or past sins). Yet His covenant to bless humanity here and in eternity hinges on obedience to his Word and following of the Living Word Jesus Christ's example.
WHAT IF A PREGNANT WOMEN GOES TO ONE OF THESE
ABORTION DOCTORS AND THE BABY POSES NO RISK
TO THEIR HEALTH OR THEIR LIFE. THESE DOCTORS
WILL ABORT A PREGNANCY FOR ANY REASON BECAUSE
" THEY LOVE WHAT THEY DO" , "IT'S A CALLING"
" FOR WHAT EVER REASON THEY WERE FORCED TO
TERMINATE"
Dr. Derzis spoke the truth and the "pro-lifers" who are offended are being hypocritical. Operation Rescue shut down their website yesterday and today got rid of most of their "Tiller Watch" content.
Why? I believe is to try to shield themselves of any responsibility.
I have been on multiple Christian, pro-life and conservative blogs and most bloggers/commentators are not only not condoning this assassination, they have in fact been mockingly referring to the murder of Dr. Tiller as a "late term abortion".
These pro-life groups, most of them identifying themselves as "Christians" are just the same if not WORSE than Al-Quaeda and Muslim terrorist.
The Muslim terrorist are NOT exploiting the First Amendment and waving American flag!
The pro-life movement uses Jesus and Biblical scriptures to justify hate, discrimination, violence, terror, ignorance, destruction and fear.
Dr. Derzis, is right. It is only going to get more violent. as these group face reality that they lost the White House, Congress and the majority of Americans are NOT on their side.
The federal government has to step up and jail these people as part of the war on terror!
Word. This is legal, this service that these people provide and if your country isn't going to stop the violence against these law-abiding people then WTF? Your religious views on when life begins are your's and your's alone. Please respect the religious pluralism upon which America was founded.
O'Reilly portrayed Tiller as a murderer on the loose, and anybody who wasn't using every trick in the book to lock him up was supposedly corrupt (Tiller had just been acquitted by a jury of sixteen dubious charges). He said Governor Sebelius had "blood on her hands." I don't know how you portray somebody providing legal services as an outlaw, and everybody not stopping him from providing them as perverting the law for evil ends, and then say you're not encouraging vigilante justice, but O'Reilly obviously will.
Tucker Carson just said calling Tiller "Tiller the Baby Killer" as O'Reilly routinely does is "objectively true," and described him as "a monster," but of course said murdering the monster was wrong.
You know, it's interesting that these people call abortion providers and anybody supports them "killers" and bloodthirsty and callous and lawless and everything you can think of. Tiller is the seventh abortion provider and the fifth doctor to be murdered, and there have been seventeen attempted murders. Not to mention violent attacks on women trying to enter the facilities. I know of absolutely no case where one of the "murdering" doctors even fired back in self defense, or of any violent attacks on people like Randall Terry. The "murderers" just perform abortions. The "defenders of the victims" make nail bombs or shoot doctors in church, or just get other suckers to do it for them.
Why do people who are so religious or spiritual try so hard to push thier beliefs down other people's throat? We have a constitution of laws that state what we can and cannot do, why is that not good enough. What ever reason a woman has for choosing to have an abortion is just that, Her choice. It is not the next person's choice but hers. If it is not you then stay out of other people's buisness. If you don't believe in abortion don't have one. But don't try to stop others from exercising thier right to choose.
Hell with you folks...anti abortisionists..
why the hell you hav an issue with abortion. it is a right of every woman in this country to decide whether to have a baby or not. You dont have that right.
If you say that you are killing fetus..why the hell you are killing so many animals and eating them. you cowards. On gods name , you do so many unpardonable crimes. you dont have any right to dictate terms to anybody.
after all it is a womans right to decide to have abortion or not. and you better dont stand in protests near clinics. one day all of you will be smashed from this copuntry.. get last before your are thrown out of this free country .
Kelly
you talk about LIFE SAVING MEDICAL CARE. these people killed off one of your brothers or sisters. how is this considered life saving? someone was murdered rather than dying of natural causes. i pray for these young HUMAN beings(fetus) that arent granted the same rights we have as older(SICK) human beings have. may they all rest in peace.
There is such a thing as pro-abortion, "Mike". I'm pro-abortion, for good reason. I was adopted at birth, in the days when there was no option to terminate the pregnancy that resulted in me. Due to being adopted by parents who were unfit to raise a hamster, I'm a psychological basket case. I wouldn't wish my life on anyone. I'm in favor of being able to terminate any pregnancy at any time.
And all you anti-choicers, give me any legitimate scientific proof that life begins at conception. There is none. Citing that fantasy book you cling to so much isn't proof. If you want to cite a book of ancient wisdom, start citing Aristotle, specifically the difference between potentiality and actuality.
A ridiculous piece of "news" brought to you by CNN. A deranged individual took the life of another and that is incredibly sad, but even more so is this blatant attempt to paint all abortion opponents as lunatics like this man. If we want to talk about deranged , how about the statement by abortion clinic owner Ms. Derzis that "we are all proud of what we do, we love what we do"..
Most of the people that kill (abortionist) are men and they can't even get pregnant. What are their beef? If we don't tell you we are pregnant you would not even know we (women) had an abortion or not. You may be living with someone who had an abortion and don't even know it. Men just want to be in control of everything even women bodies.
Abortion is a dangerous topic to begin with, but to say that one life is more important than another is absurd! People who have "medically necessary" abortions usually make their decisions based on what one doctor told them. A doctor who can't predict the future, and is VERY capably of making mistakes. Instead of doing research, seeking a second opinion, or just plainly taking the hand that they were dealt and trusting in God, they rush out to the nearest abortion clinic and "gently empty their uterus". Hoping that the next one will be the one they want, or that maybe they won't make the same mistake twice. I do not, by any means condone the murder of doctors, or clinic workers, but I also don't condone the murder of innocents. I was told during my pregnancy (with a child with a genetic defect) that I could get an abortion and it was ok. I didn't and now I have the most beautiful and wonderful child that I could ever hope to have. Yes, we have medical concerns, doctors appointments, and prescriptions, but seeing my baby smile makes every second worth it. If we hadn't had the amnio done, and had found out about our genetic defect later on in our child's life, we wouldn't have "gently disposed" of our child then either. It is murder, no matter what the age!
I am one of "these people" that Ms. Derzis villifies.
For years I, along with many others, spent numerous Saturday mornings in front of local abortion clinics. But she and others who claim pro-lifers are violent and angry are lying. I never once saw a pro-lifer yell at anyone. We sought instead to talk peacefully and quietly with people who were visiting the clinic, and if they didn't want to talk we just prayed instead.
One time during all those years, I witnessed a hotheaded young man who joined us on a Saturday morning "lose it" and threaten a woman verbally. (She had reached into her pants and acted as she was smearing her bodily fluids on him.) We removed him from the scene and made sure he never came back.
There is no way a true pro-lifer would ever tolerate a violent act even against someone like Dr. Tiller. For all the pain he caused others, he was still a misguided soul who was not beyond the grace of God.
If you really want to find the killer, look up the boyfriends and husbands of all the women he aborted, who might not have known at the time that he was killing their child. I have met many men who were so angered by this betrayal that they were permanently scarred. These men have no choice in our twisted society.
Despite never having threatened anyone and never even having raised my voice or done anything illegal (I never once trespassed), I myself was arrested more than once, I was the subject of death threats, survived one attempt on my life, was beaten several times by mobs, and was spit upon and screamed countless obscenities at.
Why put yourself through this? For the same reason abolitionists risked their lives. Innocent lives are saved by people who pray in front of abortion clinics and tell the truth to women who will listen. Through our quiet and prayerful witness we saw many women choose life for their children. Lives were saved! There are 20-year-olds alive and walking around today because we took a tough stand.
The truth is that if George Tiller and Diane Derzis had their way, those kids would be dead now.
I can't stand the smug look on that doctor's face. All in the service of women. What about the innocent lives she is ending evertime she performs an abortion??? We should be protecting the smallest amongst us not killing them as if they do not matter.
i love watching the comments when the crazies come out!
Explain to me how people can justify killing someone they accuse of killing someone else? Doesn't that make them exactly what they they rail against?
Neither side of this arguement is correct. There is absolutely NO blanket answer for this issue one way or the other.
Kelly...
How do you know that your mother's life would not have been spared had she continued in on the pregnancy? Sadly, since she decided to end the life of your sibling in utero you will never know.
It is a Doctor's job to give us the worst case scenario. And if a doctor were to ever tell me that my pregnancy would end my life. You can bet your life on it that I would find a doctor that would do their best to see me through my pregnancy as far as possible and if needed I would give birth to my baby early enough to save his life and mine. Or if it be Gods will, my life would be terminated. It is not my place (or a doctor's) to decide who dies and when.