Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman is poised to deliver a damaging blow to Democrats and to the health care reform bill they're trying to get passed in the Senate.
Lieberman says it's because there's a government-run public option in the bill that he would join a filibuster and do what he could to stop the measure from passing.
Senator Sherrod Brown from Ohio co-wrote the public option legislation. He wants President Obama to come out in strong support of the public option. He spoke to Kiran Chetry on CNN’s “American Morning” Wednesday. Below is an edited transcript of that interview.
Kiran Chetry: You've been a longtime supporter of health care reform. How concerned are you about Senator Lieberman saying he would join a filibuster over the public option?
Sherrod Brown: It’s too early to say that from his comments. I have not talked to Joe since he said that. I know Harry Reid has. He’s going to vote to put it on the floor. We’ll have the debate and we will see what happens. I think in the end people don't want to be on the wrong side of history. People want to be part of this change and this reform. You know, the opponents use the same arguments they did against Medicare 40 years ago. And I think some people after voting against Medicare kind of had buyer's remorse.
Chetry: You said it's too early to tell from his comments. Senator Lieberman said, "I can't see a way in which I can vote for cloture on any bill that contained a creation of a government-operated and run insurance company." He’s essentially saying he can’t sign on to this. How crucial is having Joe Lieberman, who caucuses with you guys, to support this bill?
Brown: Of course it's crucial, because the Republicans want to filibuster anything. Of course it is crucial to get 60 votes. I also have seen in this town enough that there is discussion and there are negotiations and there is debate. There will be a debate on a question of should we have the public option in the bill or not. Senator Lieberman will weigh in on that and have his chance to take it out then.
But in the end on final passage as I said, I don't think that comments that people are making now notwithstanding, and people say things leading up to the debate itself before they go on the floor in the final couple, three weeks. I think people don't want to be on the wrong side of history on this. I think they really don't want to say ten years from now I wasn't part of that health care reform and it's working pretty well just like Medicare has.
Chetry: Others have left open the possibility of voting against it. Other Democrats like Senator Landrieu and Senator Evan Bayh. And Ben Nelson, who said they want to hear a little bit more. One of the things that Senator Lieberman spoke about is maybe we're rushing it and it's too soon. Let a few years ago by and see if any of those reforms have happened. They almost seem to be supporting a so-called trigger as Senator Olympia Snowe said. Is there something to be said for waiting to see if some of these other reforms actually take shape before going to creating a government-run insurance plan?
Brown: No, there's not, because since World War II when this employer-based insurance kind of health care system began to be assembled for large numbers of people, the insurance companies have gamed the system for 50 years. We’re going to give them another two or three years to see if they behave? I don't think so. I think people understand … the insurance companies will declare victory and they'll begin to push back. No matter how bad it gets they’ll fight any kind of a government competitor, if you will.
We know Medicare works. We know that a government option works and state workers compensation systems in half of the states in this country. We know this will work. Insurance companies want to buy time. I don't see my colleagues voting on a procedural vote to kill the most important issue in their careers. The most important vote I ever cast was against the Iraq war. This will be the second most important vote I’ve ever made and the most important domestic vote for all of us. I don't see people killing it on a procedural vote that really has little to do with substance.
Chetry: Rep. Anthony Weiner, who very strongly supports the public option, said that the fact that Harry Reid came out and said they’re going to put a public option in the Senate bill secured about 15 votes in the House. He was very happy about it. There are others who say we need more people to jump on board. We need the strongest voice in the Democratic Party, President Obama, who has said that he thinks a public option is the best way, but not the only way to level the playing field. Do you need the president to come out harder and support this bill and the public option?
Brown: Yes, we do.
Chetry: What are you saying to the White House then about this?
Brown: We're all telling the White House we need you to weigh in, Mr. President. He's supportive of this. He's shown leadership. But now it's getting to be crunch time. We're going to the Senate floor in a couple of weeks. They're going to the House floor. We need the president to stand strong on affordability. We need the president to stand strong on how we pay for it. We need the president to stand strong on a public option. We need the president to stand strong on insurance reforms so the insurance industry can't continue to game the system and discriminate against women and discriminate against people on disability and all of the kinds of things the insurance company has used to quadruple profits in the last five years.
Chetry: The other interesting part about Sen. Reid’s plan is that states can opt out. How do you feel about that given that there are some who have already said they would opt out, some of the governors. And if you have governors of big Republican states like Texas and California opt out, is it going have the teeth that it needs to really bring down costs?
Brown: Those are some big ifs. I would rather the opt out were not in, but I'm not concerned by it. It's not just one governor saying we’re going to opt out. It’s a governor who might be running for president in two years playing to the conservatives in his Republican base. It takes an act of the legislature signed by the governor in a regular piece of legislation and I don't see very many states opting out. If they want to, they can.
Once we’ve passed this and voters see what the public option is – that it’s going to make the insurance companies more honest, it will keep prices down and it will give additional choice, when the insurance companies have pretty much engaged in monopolistic practices, I don't see legislatures and governors – even in states as conservative as Texas – necessarily opting out. Certainly not in California. Certainly not in Minnesota. What the governors might be saying notwithstanding.