American Morning

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November 16th, 2009
05:50 AM ET

Militias: Patriots or Extremists?

By Jim Acosta

Out in the woods, 30-minutes from the nearest city, the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia meets for training once a month.

Armed with a small arsenal of semi-automatic weapons, the question that crosses your mind at one of these exercises is: training for what?

That depends on who you ask.

Our visit with the militia is the first installment of our three part series on something called "the Patriot movement."

The members of the militia in Michigan would certainly call themselves patriots. The folks at the civil rights organization, the Southern Poverty Law Center prefers to use the word "extremists."

Critics of the modern-day militia point out how some of the members of this movement are highly secretive. For example, we contacted nearly a dozen militias for permission to observe their exercises. The militia in Michigan is the only one that said yes.

Watch: Patriots or Extremists? Video

Still, some of its members would not give us their names. Others wore masks.

Then there are the members' constant fears the Obama administration will eventually take away their gun rights.

Another member told us he thinks the president could be "dangerous for the nation."

In nearly the same breath that member said he hopes the militia's training exercises would give some in Washington "pause."

Not to worry, says the group's leader Lee Miracle. A military veteran and postal worker, yes postal worker, Miracle says he urges respect for the president.

He's out to change the way the world views militia groups. We get an up-close look at his family in part two of our series. A family Miracle refers to as "Lee and Kate plus eight plus a gun rack." That's because they have eight kids and 22 guns in the house. And the kids take part in militia day.

In part three of our series, we go to Las Vegas to go behind the scenes with an organization called "Oathkeepers." It's a group of ex-law enforcement officials and military veterans who say they've sworn an oath to the Constitution, not the president. The president they're referring to, of course, is Mr. Obama.

Share your thoughts with us here at amFIX.

Filed under: Controversy • Patriots or Extremists
soundoff (504 Responses)
  1. J

    Patriotism is a disease of the small minded.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:45 pm |
  2. Anon

    "the question that crosses your mind at one of these exercises is: training for what?"

    Thanks Mr. Acosta but I can form my own opinion about what their training means.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:45 pm |
  3. Adam

    small arsenal of semi automatic weapons vs F-22s or Abrams.....who's gonna win that fight? U.S. Military would crush them...the days of a possible armed revolution in America is officially over.

    These "patriots" are stupid and have a complete lapse of logic and reason.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:45 pm |
  4. Militarymale

    the fact you say they dont include minorities is correct in the fact they accept americans. If you keep referring to americans of any culture as minorities then you really dont have a clue. There are different cultures of americans in these organizations so please get your facts straight before you start yelling racism, ect.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:45 pm |
  5. andy

    Funny, but who exactly are these militia going to fight if they decide they don't like the government? Obviously they're going to fight and kill Americans. They aren't patriots or even extremists, they're traitors.

    Lose an election and suddenly it's okay to wander around threatening the winning party with guns? Because that's exactly what these people are doing. If they don't like what the winning side does, they will fight them.

    They're no better than the confederate traitors that fought against this country or Al Qaeda. They oppose democracy and freedom and despite platitudes claiming otherwise, have no respect for the office of the President.

    Simple truth is conservatives lost an election and think that gives them the right to break laws and violently oppose a sitting President in a time of war. If Al Qaeda could ask for anything, what about having groups of armed nutters roaming through the states, putting it's residents in fear for their lives and whose ideals threaten the properly elected government of this country? Well sounds like they have chosen their side, I chose America.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:45 pm |
  6. Byron

    Ignorance and over reaction will be the fall of this country... oh and for the people that work with the Postal Worker shown in this report, be careful.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:45 pm |
  7. nancy

    So people who spend their time "practicing" with automatic weapons in fatigues in the woods "in case" the government displeases them at some point in the future manage to have a mainstream news medium actually pose the question as to whether or not they are patriots or extremists? The former term is way too generous and the latter term is too sanitized. How about asking whether they are
    " sane or insane", "responsible citizens or potential assasins."

    November 16, 2009 at 2:45 pm |
  8. TedP

    the gangs, mass shootings and 17yr old kids killing each other every day are more of a threat to your gun rights than Obama could ever be. Thanks to Fox News people are focusing their despair in the wrong direction.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:44 pm |
  9. Michigan

    Folks, the militias have been around for years, not just since Obama was elected president. They've been around for decades and we haven't heard hide nor hair from them. They're Americans, not Al Queda. It's so sad to see how judgmental everyone is in their commentary. Just because someone is different from you, doesn't make them a bad person.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:44 pm |
  10. RDJ

    You liberal idiots cry "the second ammendment refers to a well organized militia", so they organize a militia and you still complain? What do you want, well, actually, I know, no guns, period.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:44 pm |
  11. Frank

    You people bad mouthing the militia should check your history books and remember what role they played defending this country and securing our freedoms. Gee the people who FOUNDED this country thought it was that important you should too

    Amendment 2 – Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:44 pm |
  12. M. Deubel

    The way things are going, these groups may be the only thing that saves this country from the deathgrip government continues to tighten around the American peoples throat & wallet.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:43 pm |
  13. george from alaska

    what a childish bunch of fools. do they really think they better patriots than anyone else simply because they are ignorant morons that like to poop in the woods & watch fox tv in their rv's. a true patriot would grab their fake tri-cornered hats and shove them as far up their rear as wait...nix that idea...they would probably enjoy it!

    November 16, 2009 at 2:43 pm |
  14. Dr. Ray

    They are patriots, mostly. A few are... questionable in their mental capabilities.

    I, and every free person in the US, is a member of the militia, as defined by the Founding Fathers. The only difference between "us" and "them" is that they are training in the use of firearms and are prepared for warfare should it become necessary. That kind of training changes people – ask the military. The only reason people don't label the military as nutjob extremists is because they are sanctioned by the government. Militias don't want / need the government to recognize them.

    Should the government ever become truly tyrannical to the point of a second American revolution, those people in the trained militias will probably prove to be invaluable, while the rest of us roll over and take what the government gives us.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:43 pm |
  15. Inabon Yunes

    Plain terrorists that can't handle democracy. Lets uphold the constitution and protect this country from ALL foes, foreign or domestic.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:42 pm |
  16. Rob

    They are definitely freaks. Not patriots.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:42 pm |
  17. Charles

    Nut-balls, but very disturbed and dangerous nut-balls.
    These people have nothing in common with the second amendment.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:42 pm |
  18. JW

    Tim Mc Veigh anyone? Hello? Terrorists are terrorists, whether pretending to serve country or God.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:42 pm |
  19. Mike

    For the most part they are patriots, but it would seem that they are preparing for war against the President and his administration. That is certainly not patriotic. It's one thing to disagree with the President's views; I certainly do quite often and that goes for every President. But let's take it down a notch as Americans. Us citizens have more in common that politicians and news outlets would like to admit. Don't let political talking points divide our nation; it weakens us as a people and as a country.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:42 pm |
  20. David D.

    You people kill me. You have nothing better to do than scream racism at the drop of a hat. Where do you get that? Nearly all of the private militias across the country existed PRIOR to the current presidential administration. They didn't just form when a Black president was elected to office.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:42 pm |
  21. Jack

    I dont see any thing wrong with what their doing im all for right to bare arms but i dont see why they dont enlist and help are nation instead of causing controversy.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:41 pm |
  22. riker

    Paranoid lunatics and VERY bad Americans.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:41 pm |
  23. erasure25

    President Obama expanded gun rights since taking office. He signed a bill allowing people to take guns into parks.

    The problem with extremists is that they don't listen to facts. They believe in their own dogma without regard to the facts.

    When I hear people like these militias saying they fear Obama will take away gun rights, do they even know that he actually expanded gun rights? How many of these militias keep up with the actual facts?

    And how do they define "when the state becomes the enemy?" In a democracy, you have to learn to compromise and it seems these people don't want anything to do with compromise.

    When a military force does not answer to a civilian government, you have a military dictatorship. These militias represent, therefore, are nothing but military dictatorships in the making.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:41 pm |
  24. Tom

    These are self appointed "gods" that are determined to exercise their compulsion to control everything around them. They must be stopped.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:41 pm |
  25. Zach

    I have no problem with the right to bear arms, but they say they are preparing to fight against government tyranny. My problem is, who decides when a government is overstepping its bounds? These guys, who probably have no idea what Constitutional Law even is?

    What is a democratically elected government chooses a policy they don't agree with. Is that the time for their revolution?

    November 16, 2009 at 2:40 pm |
  26. mac Texas

    It is easy to see that there are some people who do not understand that "The Right To Bear Arms" does not mean "start an uprising against people we do not like in government". To my knowledge there have been no laws passed or proposed under Obama that curtail the sales of firearms or amunition.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:40 pm |
  27. Brandy

    I don't think everyone will be complaining as much when they are out there saving our butts.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:40 pm |
  28. Daniel

    I agree with some others. If these guys are wanting to protect our country, they should join the military instead of playing war in their backyard. Sounds like some of these guys need a new hobby.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:40 pm |
  29. kd

    These people are crazy. Crazy and dangerous.

    They're also delusional. I suspect they'd be the first to soil themselves if ever in a dangerous situation. The psychology of their playing out to overcome their own fears and shortcomings is staggering.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:39 pm |
  30. dale

    They are idiotic paranoid morons. They would also be destroyed in about thirty seconds if it came down to it. Embarrassing dolts.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:39 pm |
  31. Mark Trail

    They are patriots! If things go bad it is good to know we have people prepared to help defend our freedom. It is good for our country to have patriots such as these be prepared for the un-thinkable.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:39 pm |
  32. Martha

    They are pathetic

    November 16, 2009 at 2:38 pm |
  33. owen lovelace

    militias are a right we have and shouuld maintain not just as a check against our government but against other gov'ts also it's a right everyone should have protecting yourself isn't a joke and it never was even if you don't like the Idea of a militia you may be glad someone else was in one someday the world can be a scary place sometimes banning guns and militia's is never going to be the answer depending on where you live walking to the store can be a risk everyone needs to know how to defend themselves not just the military and police

    November 16, 2009 at 2:38 pm |
  34. Miss J

    If you read the bill of rights you will see that these people are exercising their constitutional rights. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Don't get me wrong, I voted for Obama. But I call 'em like I see 'em. The minute liberals hear the word "Republican," or "Guns," or "Militia," they run screaming. Get a grip.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:38 pm |
  35. Walter

    CNN is corporate spun media. American militias and truthers are patriots. Obviously there may be a few who are racist, just like there are politicians who sell their souls to Satan, but overall these militias are training to help all you sheep when your dazed and confused. Don't let government propaganda divide the population into groups or else it will be impossible to unite.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:38 pm |
  36. Jim

    ...Lee Miracle. A military veteran and postal other words, a guy who has been on the federal payroll his whole adult life is against the government? Hey Lee...get a job in the private sector and refuse your veterans benefits if you hate the feds so much!

    November 16, 2009 at 2:37 pm |
  37. Mindstorms

    I think these "patriots" should be sent to Afghanistan. After all they are a militia. Let them get a real taste for the everyday struggle just to stay alive and see how "patriotic" they will be.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:37 pm |
  38. influence

    Patriots or No Patriots!! Its not our decision to make..Only time tells the true story..

    November 16, 2009 at 2:36 pm |
  39. Kenneth

    These militias are no different than those that formed militias to build The United States with in the Revolutionary war. Our Government even still recognizes these types of militias today. Look it up U.S.C. 10- chapter. 13- section 311. They are considered to be an unorganized militia vs the Organized militia everyone knows as the National Guard. I would even bet you people didn't even know that the Federal Government has about 70% control over the National Guard and the state only 30%. While the State can have 100% control over an unorganized militia if they decide to call them up for duty.
    These unorganized militias are still important today. They were last on alert for protecting this country during WWII on the west coast in Washington. I am sure they will be called to duty again if we ended up in a major war like that one again.
    As for all of you who don't agree with the militias being formed to protect the country from tyranny. Lets just say these people are only exercising their 2nd amendment right. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

    November 16, 2009 at 2:36 pm |
  40. Alex


    November 16, 2009 at 2:34 pm |
  41. Troy

    Has anybody studied Ideological Subversion? What Yuri Bezmenov was warning about is happening in this country. Forcing people to do anything against their will is wrong, and everybody has an individual right to protect themselves from such force. You think forcing Iraqis to have freedom is wrong, do not force things on me. Any action that does not come from mutual voluntary consent is force. Follow due process on just cause only, stop unnecessary search and seizure through the Patriot Act. Stand down the 3d Infantry 1st BCT deployed here in America. Do not force healthcare on me. Do not use my tax dollars collected by force to bail out large bankrupt companies. Regardless of my ethnic background, as a human being, my life has value, and I have natural rights just like everyone else. You do to.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:32 pm |
  42. Kelly

    Besides, the right to bear arms means the right to serve in the U.S. military, where the real heroes reside.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:28 pm |
  43. Kelly

    No names...masks...sounds like the KKK to me.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:25 pm |
  44. Ron

    No one should ever loose their rights under the 2nd amendment. However, people that believe that they are the only ones to defend the Constitution should read it and then ask if they are true patriots. If not, then their definition of the Constitution places them in a false belief and they are extremists looking and waiting to have an excuse to strike and impose law and restraint on others, the American Taliban.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:17 pm |
  45. mike-sey

    The absolute worst suggestion made here is that these overweight sluggos should come out of the woods and demonstrate their 'patriotism' by joining the police and the armed forces. God Help you if they do and your military and cops are so desperate they accept them. Abu Ghraib will look like a Sunday School picnic.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:16 pm |
  46. mike-sey

    a bunch of deluded lunatics and morons, who like to play toy soldiers and think wearing camo is a fashion statement.

    November 16, 2009 at 2:06 pm |
  47. mantys29

    I think militias are against the law. They should be brought to justice. This is a criminal activity. Once they are start running out funds to support their organization, they start committing crimes like any other gang. In Colombia militias started in the 1960’s with the same patriotic idea, and look what happened. They got involved with drugs, kidnappings, and other forms of crime to become one of the most dangerous organizations in the world. Be aware!

    November 16, 2009 at 2:04 pm |
  48. jgk

    Why is this even a debate?

    Yes, they're extremists. They have taken up arms and are essentially threatening to take action against their own govt/country. I'd say that's extremism, if not terrorism. If these guys were muslim there would be a sh*tstorm.

    November 16, 2009 at 1:45 pm |
  49. reyrey

    the last time i googled "Bill of Rights" or "US Constitution", i saw more information than just the 1st and 2nd amendments. perhaps these militias should take some time to go over the actual facts of what they claim to be defending and not pick and choose which is the most convenient to their cause. maybe then they will more correctly honor our forefathers for ALL that they did to provide for our freedoms instead of just relegating to the old, tired and whiny adage of "right to bear arms".

    November 16, 2009 at 1:41 pm |
  50. Dan K

    All those that think militias were not created when Bush was in office. You are DEAD wrong. They have been around since before our nation was a nation. It has nothing to do with race or religion. These are men who are keeping trained in case the govt becomes a tyranny. Those who scream racism are the real racists. Many of these guys have former military experience and again are here to protect their families. They are not extremists. They clearly have nothing to hide and if majorities wanted to join they are more than welcome too. Lets get rid of all the racist comments on here and try thinking of another excuse please.

    November 16, 2009 at 1:40 pm |
  51. Boysie

    Because they are not Muslims there are not called Terriorist ... Extremist not to me they are terriorists plain radicals ... they should be stopped but wht the heck its a free country ...

    then let the Middle Eastern Countries have their armed Militias too only the are the terriorist ...

    crazy huh ....

    November 16, 2009 at 1:28 pm |
  52. Patrick in Pensacola

    How can CNN have a story about militias without addressing the role FOX NEWS plays in influencing such folks with altered facts and predetermined narratives? Fox news directly plays a role in perpetuating the atmosphere of paranoia provoked by half facts, lies, and an audience unable to dissect information. We can't expect all people to have the higher cognitive ability to critique information. However, we should expect that information be called what it is. Fox Propaganda should be called for what it is: politically-motivated propaganda, pure and simple.

    November 16, 2009 at 1:17 pm |
  53. Tom Thumb

    I agree with Mr. Rob and Mr. whitehawk. To me they look like nothing more than a bunch of illiterat, out of shape, over weight idiots who have nothing more to do with their spare time than play soldier. If they truely loved their country or state, they would join the military and become a productive member of society. That will never happen because these types will never put their life on the line for anything. They like to complain, but don't offer an alternative. They give the word patriot a bad name.

    November 16, 2009 at 1:16 pm |
  54. Shelby

    these people seem to be somed up in the taliban, alquda, whitehawk
    flavor of hate.When these groups loose on ideas of what proves to
    be right, the only other option they can come up with is fear and
    warmongering, causing discontentment with their neighbors. God
    sees the intent ot the heart.He is the ultimate judge.Extremist reme-
    ber Samson of the bible how he avenged himself aganist the Philistines.God is in control.

    November 16, 2009 at 12:36 pm |
  55. Al Gagne

    To those of you who say "Just one man can't take away your rights." Just one man can't do that. Of course not. 1930 in Germany just one man couldn't invade Poland, Chezchoslovakia, Russia, North Africa, Belgiam, Holland, France, Italy, etc. Just one man couldn't round up 6 million Jews and exterminate them. Of course not. Keep believing that and when they come for you just keep saying "Just one man Couldn't be doing this."

    My Father enlisted at 17 years old. He served in North Africa, Scicily, Italy, France and Germany. He was always my Hero I looked up to. He told me that someday this could happen in America. I am witnessing it today. I am thankful he is now longer around to witness this himself.

    November 16, 2009 at 12:10 pm |
  56. rich

    God bless them, i see nothing wrong with what they're doing. it's probably like a hobby to them along with fellowship of the same mindset. as long as it's organized and no accidents occur, let it be.

    November 16, 2009 at 11:24 am |
  57. anti guns

    Another thing, I've always found that when someone accuses someone else of something, racism, bigotry, whatever, the accuser sees himself in the accused. A lot of paranoia showing here, too! And thank God the real Aryan airheads have chimed in with their opinions!! We really need more of them for sure. People who call themselves Americans have come to this country because they want to live a life with freedom. Not having to worry about some guy blowing his family away!! We as Americans, whether you were born here or naturalized, need to stand behind the government we all had a hand in electing and believe that it will do what is right for the WHOLE population, not a choice few. And militias began because we were at war with the English for our freedoms. If you want to defend your freedoms, do like eveyone else does in the present and join the military.

    November 16, 2009 at 11:04 am |
  58. Mitchell

    Well at least they are not mindless "politically correct" sheep that look forward to living in a bankrupt and socolist country. I suspose that if they were a orginized gang selling dope, doing drive by shootings and terrorizing people then they would be accepted by a politically correct society and a liberal/socolist leaning press.

    November 16, 2009 at 10:55 am |









    November 16, 2009 at 10:54 am |
  60. Mr. Neary

    i voted for obama. i also own several guns. i do not buy the BS that the current administration will take way America's 2nd amendment rights. i seems to me that, as a country, we are at a crossroads. i voted for obama because i felt that he could pull power from the privaliged and re-delegate it to the public. if this does not occur by the end of his 1st term, or if sarah palin is elected president, i believe that the only solution to our country's problems will be an all out uprising

    i pray that this can be avoided
    but i will be the first man in the streets if it does

    November 16, 2009 at 10:51 am |
  61. Mickie

    Do you wait until you LOSE your rights to defend them?

    They are patriots.

    November 16, 2009 at 10:50 am |
  62. Becky

    Racism? Is that the only word you know? You are incredible!! Red, yellow, black or white- our freedoms are for everyone!!! I find it interesting that the only people yelling "racism" are the people who use it as a weapon. Stop the excuses. Is that the only argument you have. Are you so ignorant that you can't look past color to the real issues. I AM SORRY BUT YOU ARE THE RACISTS-NOT THESE PEOPLE. We are all American. It is sad that you can't come up with a better argument because this one is GETTING REALLY OLD AND OVERUSED!!!!!!!!!

    November 16, 2009 at 10:23 am |
  63. Pandora Brinker

    My husband and I
    have always been registeried republicans.
    We're also of the Christian faith
    from Catholic and Evangelical backgrounds.

    My husband has received
    an honorable discharge from the Army.

    Sometime before 1999
    we desired to embrace the survivalist mentality.
    In case of a local disaster.
    We could be better equipped to help out in our community.

    We attended some 'Christian Militia Meetings'.
    Believing we were within the law of personal protection.
    From any lawless persons of harmful lootings.

    We do believe to be living
    in 'the end times' of Bible Prophecy.
    But, we found that these Militia groups taught the
    fear our government; instead of Trusting In Our God.

    They believed in some Interpretations of Bible Prophecy.
    Which ultimatately led so many into The Big Y2K Scare.

    Thank God we were not involved in the spreading
    of these fearful scare tacts.
    As we declined any further envolvement
    with those 'Christian Militia' groups.

    Instead, my husband decided to get involved in training
    for our Community Volunteer Fire Department.
    Becoming a Volunteer EMT and Ambulance Captain.
    Also serving as one of the Board 0f Directors for our area.

    Of course, in no way do I stand as
    a voice of experience in all the Militias.

    But I pray we have all learned from the false Church prophecies
    of those who producted the fears of Y2K.
    As they also made a lot of money from those who bought into it.

    November 16, 2009 at 10:20 am |
  64. Becky

    These are patriots. They have their right to bear arms and to believe what they wish just as our President believes that socialism and redistributing the wealth is good for the people. I don't know who he is talking about. Perhaps those who continue to be in slavery to the government because they don't have enough intelligence to understand that the government is now their "owners". The government loves the fact that they don't embrace their freedoms to be who they want and can be. They are their slaves.Their puppets to do and say what the liberals want them to. I feel sorry for the people who still hold onto the fact that the government is there to take of them because in reality it is using them. It is holding them back from being who they have the ability to be. It is keeping them down.

    November 16, 2009 at 10:16 am |
  65. Sinista Mace

    Dennis Kucinich is for taking all firearms from the people, which is my only sticking point with him, and probably the reason I wont vote for him next time, even though his vote may stop this atrocious thing called healthcare reform, and even though he supports Ron Paul's Audit the Fed bill. Tough choices.

    November 16, 2009 at 10:15 am |
  66. Emily

    I believe these are regular folks who believe in their Constitutional rights and are just frustrated with the current economy and the current direction the government is taking us. They are within their rights, and all they are doing is preparing, just in case. In the process, many are becoming better educated at how our government and economy works.
    They aren't planning a "take over" or anything violent. They just want to be left alone. If someone were coming to do something to you that you felt was illegal and opposed to your beliefs, most people would want to be prepared to handle it and do something about it.

    November 16, 2009 at 10:11 am |
  67. Kyle

    They are not extremists, they just want to be prepared to save your butts if things go bad. Such as the government becoming Fascist. The militias are the true patriots in this country, not the military. The military works in the corporations interest, militias work in the peoples interest. Defend our constitution at all costs. Militias are not racist as most of you think, the news just decided to put a militia up that did not have minorities, where that militia is located maybe its a high white population. The militias in Chicago are mainly black/white, does that mean they are racist against hispanics??

    November 16, 2009 at 10:10 am |
  68. Sinista Mace

    Awww, too bad the military was in a state of delusion in thinking they could bribe everyone with college paid for and GI-Bills. Apparently, some people you can't bribe, say hello to Maj. Hasan.

    November 16, 2009 at 10:04 am |
  69. Sinista Mace

    I'm willing to lay down my life for this country , but not for any lies. And I would join local militia for FREE. Or to look at it another way.. for FREEDOM.

    November 16, 2009 at 10:01 am |
  70. Sinista Mace

    You couldn't ever pay me or bribe me enough to join this military and be made to perpetrate a war based on false pretense. That's why Major Hasan shot up that military base. I have a question for you all, WHO PAID HASAN TO SHOOT? WHO PAYS LOCAL MILITIA? Answer is: Nobody, they believe in their hearts what they do is right. If government had to put their kids up first to fight in war, it would be a lot more planning and less gung ho stupidness, and wars of false pretense would not occur. Likewise, if congress and government has to abide by the same crap laws they're trying to impose on us, They wouldn't do it.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:58 am |
  71. hksteck

    Our Patriotism is our right. Your Anti-Patriotism is your right. I don't understand the conflict against being able to protect ourselves. Law abiding citizens are being killed everyday by criminals, and there are People out there that are telling me/us that I/we should not be able to carry to proctect ourselves thats nonsense, simply crazy. If someone attacked you with their fists are then you are not allowed to put your hands up to defend yourself. Thats what your saying when you are trying to take our rights. Criminals will be criminals with or with out guns they could use knives it doesn't matter. Criminals are still going to try and kill you if they get that thought stuck in their head.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:53 am |
  72. Sinista Mace

    Anybody who has the testicular fortitude to stand up against a tyrannical government, is automatically a patriot to me. and I don't care that the president is black. I don't want any checks from the federal government. Looking at the hostile takeover of General Motors and the Banks, the government seems to think they can print this fake fiat paper and bribe anyone and anything in order to lend them into debt. Once you'e in debt to the government, they think they can tell you what to do and have full dominion over you, or your business. Screw the Federal Government. Power to the people. Return the printing of currency to congress. abolish the Federal Reserve, and return to a gold or silver standard. Remove monetary incentive to join the military, it's supposed to be a volunteer army, not a bribed one. Slow down congress passing legislation NOBODY HAS READ. That's a blatant misrepresentation of the people of the sovereign states. I'm glad Dennis Kucinich listens to his constituents and voted against Pelosicare because i called his office and told him I voted him in, and I'll vote him out. Use the leverage provided to you by the bill of rights.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:51 am |
  73. Al Cal

    People in this country want everything the easy way. The movies and television glorify war and fighting. Instead of joining the military and directing their antagonism toward our real enemies they invent in their own minds an imaginary enemy. Then they go out in the woods and play with their guns to make themselves feel like heroes. Where I come from we all grew up with guns but we were taught they are not toys and should never be used for play.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:50 am |
  74. J. Haapala

    How is it that we have come so far as to call true patriots who merely believe in the constitution and do not want our God given rights stripped away by those treasonous traitors who would rather have Global Government. In todays backwards thinking, Christians, pro-lifers and patriots who believe in our Constitution have been labeled terrorists by groups such as the SPLC. I guess we are a threat to their tyranny and elitist, globalist agenda. The truth is, they are the terrorists that we should be concerned with.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:41 am |
  75. Sinista Mace

    Im also an african american, and I'm appalled at President Obama's actions so far. So far, he's given billions to bankers, trying to force a hostile takeover of the healthcare industry, already did a hostile takeover of General Motors, conspiring with General Electric to so-called modernize our energy grid (i point you to the comments made by Obama that says electricity prices will necessarily skyrocket under his Cap and Trade legislation), when we know they're lying, we don't need wires to transport electricity, or 'smart grids". Electricity propagates freely through air from the dielectric breakdown of the air molecules (i.e. lightning). General Electric has been robbing us with their money making apparatus known as power lines every since they stole Nikola Tesla's patents for the wireless trasnmission of electricity, and now Obama is going to give them OUR money to upgrade their money making apparatus. Obama (and congress) are using our tax dollars to shore up and fortify their apparatus for a hostile takeover of states, in other words, all the so-called jobs saved is a load of crap, they're trying to save the emergency services they'll need in place in the event of a hostile takeover of the states (police, firefighters, ems) using martial law and the circumvention of the Posse Commitatus Act (which prevents military incursion against citizens on U.S.soil).

    November 16, 2009 at 9:41 am |
  76. sand

    I think these groups are are just thinking and feeling like most of us americans. That our debt is spending out of control, The goverment wanting to push healthcare reform , over the objections of the american people. There seems to be this attitude in washington of goverment taking over and SO WHAT YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT to the american people.When people object they are called teabaggers. People are not teabaggers,they are all of us letting their voices be heard. They are just people like you and me who are concerned about our debt , apparently the people we voted for ,who work for us do not care its all about politics.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:37 am |
  77. Ned - Tennessee

    It appears to me that most of these people are Republican Extremists. They have taken it upon themselves to protect thier rights to bare arms, (which has not been threatened) and to come down on the President because someone told them he is not following the Constitution, (which is not really true). They should be left alone and ignored so they can slowly disband and disappear when they find out they are wrong. The President was elected by the people and should be allowed to perform his duties as he and his administration sees fit and proper. President Bush had his chance, now give President Obama his Chance. If we bare arms and protect the USA that is fine, but how about becoming a Centrist and dropping this EXTREMISM on the right and on the left. All they do is make enemies.........Do not let anyone divide and conquer.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:35 am |
  78. justin blanton

    We need more of these croup's. The government is getting to out of hand. the government is getting to strong all they are doing is standing up and protecting there rights.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:33 am |
  79. Bobbie

    These people only agree with the government when Republicans are in power? That's not democracy and it certainly isn't support of the constitutional privilege provided to us to vote for those who run our country. And then to pledge allegiance to the result whether or not you agree with the policies.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:32 am |
  80. William Wanhala

    As a democracy, our right to vote is the most sacred. Where were the militias during the 2000 and 2004 elections? The documentary "Uncounted" is factual. The notion that Obama wants to take our guns is paranoid and delusional.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:29 am |
  81. Whitehawk

    Hey Mr. Rob,

    All the males in my family have served this nation too – even though this nation's government had done unspeakable things to my family, my ancestors.
    My family still chose to defend this nation – not it's government.

    And, seeing how you like to read so much, read this document written by a judge. It's a long one – 31 pages, but, as you like to read so much, you should find it very informative.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:28 am |
  82. William Wanhala

    As a democracy, our right to vote is the most sacred. Where were the militias during the 2000 and 2004 elections? The documentary "Uncounted" is factual. The notion that Obama wants to take our guns is paranoid and delusional. The nutcases who listen to Limbaugh, among others, instead of reading actual documentation are our biggest threat to national security.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:26 am |
  83. nancy

    Members of the militia are patriots. We, as American citizens, must always guard against socialism, fascism, or any idealogy that would give the elite control over our country. I believe that all governments, if given too much power, will become corrupt. Our constitution is what has made the United States a great country and we need to always defend it.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:25 am |
  84. Joel

    What is the difference between a semi-automatic firearm and an automatic firearm? Can anyone buy a automatic firearm?

    November 16, 2009 at 9:22 am |
  85. T Mouse

    The civilian militia is a long-established part of our political system. The founders of our country explicitly stated it consists of all citizens from mid-teens to mature persons;it's purpose is to defend the country against both exterior enemies and the possibility of the emergence of a tyranical government. The prohibition against having a standing army was also meant to deter the government from imposing odious conditions on the populace. This reticence to maintain a standing army continues today – Congress must vote annually to fund all military operations. The re-energized militia movement should be welcomed by the government. It indicates the determination of more and more citizens to take seriously their responsibilities to protect their country and their Constitution.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:19 am |
  86. Stephen Bart

    Patriots. These groups are alright. I don't belong, but realize how people feel. The Constitution supports them. Our founding Fathers supported them incase the government turned bad. It still stands. Problem is, I have no doubt that the Government keeps track of every newscast as yours, labeling the participants as subversive, and is probably monitoring this blog as well. SB

    November 16, 2009 at 9:18 am |
  87. Gary

    In their minds they are patriots. In reality they become extremists with constant indoctrination about religious and political purity and peer presure. I know, because I was caught up in that for several years before extracting myself. This is the environment that created Tim McVey and other terorists who labeled themselves as patriots.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:16 am |
  88. Mr. Rob

    Just because some of you idiots can read from a bill passed years ago, doesn't mean the words on a paper are true.
    YOU ARE NOT IN IRAQ,.. if you use those weapons on anyone in this country you will lose more than your rights, in reality you need to read more books and less gun manuals, people of the offices fight with pen and ink not violence stop pledging to the flag with your hand over your heart, if you dont have a true heart.
    Stop making gun owner look like fools, because you hurt every in the long run, and all races have gun.
    But if these idiots wanna fight and train,.... then why are we looking for 40,000 + to go overseas.
    Everyone in my fathers family was military and still believe that arguements can be settled through peace.
    So reveal the true reasons for the Michigan milita, The dont like President Obama.
    Wow these nuts are actually going Rogue Ha..Ha..Ha..

    November 16, 2009 at 9:16 am |
  89. Whitehawk

    One of the posters had said that Obama had adhered to the tenents of the Constitution. Really?

    Explain, then, why he violated Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution when he swore an oath to the United Nations Security Council?
    This happened almost 3 months ago, in NY, when he took the "head chair" of the council. (But, as it wasn't reported on main-stream-media, it must not be true....)

    Do you research, Rebecca, he, Obama, committed treason against the very Constitution, and nation he swore an oath to defend.

    Explain that....

    November 16, 2009 at 9:15 am |
  90. Sensible

    SLPC's Potok declares anyone in tune with his personal definition agenda a threat or hate group. His utter consistency in this regard makes his voice irrelevant. Democrats have historically centered their legislation on an expanding government role. Among those who value individual freedom in lieu of government control, a concern arises about the probable loss of rights in this environment. Some people don't like the idea of capitulating and declare a need to "get prepared." If they're not out shooting up the populace (read Col. Hasan), I've no discomfort with militias, even hundreds of them.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:14 am |
  91. Jeffey Robinson

    .As a man 58 years old I have watched over the past forty years the erosion of personal freedom as a slowly closing net. One can merely look in any direction to see it.
    When I was 16 I was given a social security card to track retirement income. Today you need one when one is born and there is not a place one can go from a doctor's office to motor vehicle where one is not asked for an SS number. Why? I invoke the Privacy Act of 1974 at every circumstance where I am asked but how many even know that exists let alone use it. Lack of knowledge will soon cause this freedom to disappear altogether.
    Probable cause used by law enforcement has dissappeared.
    4 years ago an unarmed friend of mine was shot by police and killed in his own yard. No investigation while we in the community were outraged.
    Visting New York State for seven months from Seattle during the period of 9/11 I was pulled over by police 11 times in a week and a half after not being pulled over for 15 years prior.
    With things like rendition all rights as an individual are lost including ones right to a fair trial.
    Homeland Security has rights which exceed anything ever seen.
    Do you think flying was always like it is now?
    Sophisticated technology has led to every phone call I make or e-mail I send being monitored. My home can be accessed via satelite even by me.

    What is the purpose of all of this? To protect me? It is a sad commentary that I am now more concerned about this monitoring then any threat I may face. I feel I have a better chance of being run over by a bus or struck by lightning............twice, then ever being affected by an act of terror.

    Personally I see the Democrats as protecting any remaining liberties I may still have. This is America and Militias have the right to a dissenting position even if I may not agree with their philosophies. I do not see any threat of Socialism whatsoever.

    One only has to try to build something,
    apply for anything, or protest the wars to see that government has far exceeded its bounds.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:13 am |
  92. Mary

    The question was raised as to whether the Militias were actually a racist based group or not.
    I understand their fear of gun control and the loss of their clear 2nd Ammendment rights but, which Americans do they believe are entitled to these rights? Are black Americans entitled to these rights? Are Muslim AMERICANS entitled to these rights (even if they are second or third generation Americans)?
    I think if these questions are answered you will find the answer.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:12 am |
  93. edward r bates

    We should remember that it was the militia (private citizens with personally owned firarms) that stood against the worlds best army at Lexington and Concord on April 19, 1775. Why ? To protect their rights to own personal firarms as this is the cornerstone of protecting personal freedoms. That is why the Second Amendment was included into the constitution. And this is what the Second amendment meant by the term "militia", just as it was defined at the time ( Colony of Virginia as an example where it meant every able bodied man between the ages of 16 and 60).
    Today we see an increase in the membership of militia groups because of increased concern for preservation of our rights to own personal firearms as protected by the Second Amendment. This is an exercise of constitutionally protected freedoms, and so long as these militia groups remain peaceful and loyale to the principals of our Constitution which protects the rights of all Americans, they should be encouraged.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:12 am |
  94. anti guns

    All I hear about these militias sounds like a bunch of boys having their toys taken away from them. Pres. Obama is not taking away any constitutional rights to own a gun, although I would applaud him for doing so. If your toys were taken away it would only be assault rifles and handguns anyway, not hunting rifles, which is why the right was given in the first place. People then had to hunt for food and protect themselves from the elements. We now have an army and a police force to that for us. Give it a rest guys and quit pouting. Aren't you tired of hearing about another drive-by shooting or another armed robbery? Maybe you like to hear about someone's family member dying because someone had the "right" to own a gun.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:11 am |
  95. WWJD

    The 2nd Amendment was create as a counter-balance to the central government. What happens if a local or state militia actually decided they have just cause to use their weapons such as the mentioned ‘Socialist Agenda’. I personally think certain aspects of Socialism are based on a higher standard of human civilization.

    Our nation has lived so well by using a economic system based on primal needs and desires as the catalyst to motivate and produce. Are we as a nation ready to evolve into something more human, better I believe? The only way I can see weapons such as assault rifles not being necessary IS by changing our economic and values system.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:11 am |
  96. Doug

    When the president of the United States bows to the King of Saudi Arabia is that patriotic or extreme? To me it's not far from shouting "Allah Akba" before pulling the trigger. They are Patriots and in all reality there are a lot more of them in the US than these few groups you call militia, they are called WE THE PEOPLE and it has nothing to do with who is President it has to do with the President being patriotic him/herself. We do not have a king in the United States and never will as long as we have the patriots called WE THE PEOPLE.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:11 am |
  97. ron

    I have been involved with a small hunt club here in the north east upper poconos contrary to what was said of me i have been to the club meetings fund raisers and such how ever when a new member saw me on club grounds he became upset that he is in a club that allows a black man to be a member a few days later i get a call to inform me that i am now out of the club and dont come to any funtions again. I grew up here and the new members are from NJ.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:11 am |
  98. Joe A.

    PATRIOTS. And they will all vote next November.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:10 am |
  99. Jack Pangle jr

    If we had not had a militia long ago we would not be the free nation we now are. We do have the right to keep and bear arms, to train to use them, to prepare for invasion be it from abroud or from within. China now owns a majority of our companies. Should we fear our goverment? The goverment is now going to control our health care, spend billions of dollars to fund the infrastrucure of other nations while our own infrastructure falls apart. Our goverment spends billions to bail out large failing companies, while small buisiness go under. If the auto makers want to succeed let them pay their employees and exec's a wage that puts them in line with the rest of the working class. A high school drop out can stand on the assembly line do a repetitive job for far less than they are currently paying. What the union controls that! No we the people control that by what we purchase. What, excuse me the goverment controls that because they can take our tax dollars and bail them out so we can pay 35k for a 15k vehichle. Wake up America taking up arms means more than taking up guns. What happened to Goverment for the PEOPLE by the PEOPLE ? We the people have failed ourselves by not controling our goverment. When is the goverment going to pass law that bases their salary based on the average income of the people they represent?


    November 16, 2009 at 9:08 am |
  100. Joe

    I don't think all the people in that militia group are crazy or racist but, I believe they have been badly misinformed about various issues. However, it would be a mistake to not ignore the underlying racism of "patriot" movements that has always been present in America.

    November 16, 2009 at 9:08 am |
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