American Morning
Educating America: Scrap the SAT?
[cnn-photo-caption image= http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/08/31/costello.sats.cnn.art.jpg caption="Critics of the SAT say it penalizes minorities because the test itself is stacked against lower income children, who are unable to pay for test preparation programs."]
By Carol Costello and Bob Ruff
What on Earth would motivate six teenagers to spend their summer vacation locked in a tiny, nondescript room with a teacher endlessly going over vocabulary words and math problems that require the use of the Pythagorean Theorem?
(A) Their parents sent them to summer school.
(B) Angst.
(C) They like studying in the summer.
(D) They’re cramming for the SAT exam.
If you answered (B) and (D), you’d be right.
For decades, taking the SAT has stood as the sine qua non for entry into the vast majority of American colleges and universities. Taking the test continues to strike fear into high school students, especially as the date of their SAT exam approaches.
The teenagers we visited had this to say:
McKenna Baskett, St. Louis, Missouri: “I’m so nervous! ... I’m a really bad test taker and they’re really hard questions, so I just hope I can get through it.”
Pratick Parija, Jersey City, NJ: “The test is long. ... And you have to complete it and think through, so that’s what scares me a little.”
Jason Huang of New York City was philosophical: “You can’t be nervous for everything. That’s just [a] life lesson. You just got to take it, deal with it.”
McKenna, Pratick, and Jason are just a few of the many high school students taking an SAT preparation course from the Princeton Review, one of several companies offering courses throughout the nation. This one costs a little more than $600. But wealthy students, or at least their parents, are coughing up more than $7,000 for intense private tutoring so that their child can get into the just the right college.
Critics of the SAT say that all this angst is pointless. Fairtest, a nonprofit group that says it supports “fair and open testing,” believes that the SAT is biased and doesn’t do a good job of predicting college success.
What do you think? Scrap the SAT? Send us your comments.
Fairtest’s Robert Schaeffer: “The SAT is biased against women, against kids whose first language isn’t English, against older students, it’s highly susceptible to coaching, and it’s not really needed to do good college admissions, as more than 820 colleges have shown.”
He’s talking about a growing trend among colleges to stay away from the SAT as a tool in assessing applicants. This year alone eight more colleges decided to make the SAT optional. A majority of colleges still requires the SAT, but the trend is going against test.
Another critic of the SAT is Shawn Toler, principal of the KIPP School in Baltimore for inner city kids. He says that the SAT penalizes minorities because the test itself is stacked against lower income children, who are unable to pay for test preparation programs like the Princeton Review.
Laurence Bunin, senior vice president of the SAT program for the College Board says these criticisms of the SAT are pointless. He says that the test is one of several valuable tools in assessing the qualifications of students.
“I always tell parents and students to keep it in perspective,” he says. “The SAT is only one thing they look at. They’re looking at your grades. They look at what else you do: sports, athletics, art. They look at recommendations from teachers.”
Britt Reynolds, the University of Maryland’s director of admissions, gets 28,000 applications a year. He says that the SAT is no more important than any other factor, but that it does give “a little bit of consistency from student to student.”
Schaeffer says that most colleges don’t really believe the SAT is useful in predicting college success, but that admissions departments are so overwhelmed with applications that they’re forced to rely on the standardized tests to manage the volume. Students with low scores and high scores go into separate piles – and that frees up scarce admissions resources to focus on the qualifications of those who score in the middle.
You might think the man who runs the Princeton Review’s SAT preparation courses would extol the virtues of the test. But you’d be wrong.
CNN's Carol Costello asked Ed Carroll, executive director of Princeton’s high school program development, if the SAT shows how smart you are. “The only thing that the SAT is really good at is predicting how well you do on the SAT,” said Carroll. “We don’t pretend that we’re teaching you life skills or improving your academic work. We’re helping you take the SAT.”
Originally posted August 31, 2009.
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SAT stress is nothing. If you were educated in China, you have to take this big test called the Gaokao, which is literally, the only thing that determines college acceptance in China. Chinese students literally spend every waking moment studying for the test because it's only administered once a year and they are afraid of failing the test, otherwise they don't go to college.
I currently tutor both the ACT and the SAT in the Los Angeles area. There is a lot of misinformation, or lack of information, about both tests. Here are some points for parents and students to consider:
1. Since the SAT was revised 4 years ago, the ACT has become increasingly popular and is now accepted at virtually any college or university in the country (which wasn't always the case).
2. The SAT is 3 hours and 45 minutes. The ACT (with essay, which is pretty much a requirement for college admissions consideration) is 3 hours and 20 minutes, so there's not a huge time difference.
3. In terms of my students who have taken both the ACT and the SAT, most tend to score around the same on both tests and, therefore, tend to (dis)like each test equally. However, for those who DO express a preference, the vast majority of them prefer the ACT.
4. Any student planning on taking standardized tests for college admission consideration should take a practice test for both the ACT and the SAT, see what the scores are, and whether you have a strong preference. It's then a wise choice to pick one of them and use all your prep time (and $ if you choose to get outside help) focusing on THAT test, so you really learn its particular format, which is key.
5. The content of the 2 tests isn't THAT different, it's the formatting that throws some students off. The ACT tends to be a more straightforward test of actual knowledge, and, in that way, is closer to the types of tests students are used to taking in high school. The SAT has academic elements, of course, but also is testing students on overall test-taking strategies and critical thinking skills. Also, the SAT spends a lot of time coming up with attractive "trap" answers which are deliberately meant to trip students up. Since that is not something they are used to dealing with in terms of the tests their high school teachers give them, that aspect alone is what causes many kids who do well in school to underachieve on the SAT. On the other hand, the SAT subject tests (formerly the SAT IIs) are more knowledge-based, which is why some schools are more interested in how a student scores on those vs. the SAT Reasoning Test (the big SAT).
THESE ARE NOT I.Q. TESTS! Students sometimes feel that lower standardized test scores reflect poorly on their intelligence level and that is not necessarily true. Parents should be supportive throughout the process and encourage kids to work hard to achieve their goals, as in all other areas of life. Students can absolutely impact their ability to do better on these tests, IF they are willing to hunker down and do the necessary work. You don't have to hire a tutor, but students who are not as self-motivated may benefit from a class or a 1:1 tutoring situation. The College Board (the SAT people) publishes a book which now includes 10 full practice tests; Peterson's pubiishes the official ACT prep book. Those books would be the jumping-off point for students who want to prep on their own. If you feel your child needs that extra push, talk to friends who have had older kids who have gone through the experience and get their thoughts on the various programs that may be offered in your area. I always have a "meet and greet" with a new student so he/she gets a feel for me and how I work. If the student doesn't vibe with me, I don't take it personally. I feel that the student/tutor relationship is crucial to any potential success, and the students' needs come first, so they should have the type of tutor they want.
It's also important to remember that there are literally hundreds of excellent colleges and universities around the country so there's no reason to attach too much drama to this process. A past student of mine proved his true wisdom when he shared this epiphany with me - "Regardless of my test scores, I have realized that I will be accepted at some really good schools and I will find one that is right for me and I will go there and get a solid education and set myself up to pursue my dreams in life." Any college professor will enjoy teaching the type of student reflected in that level of awareness and emotional maturity.
A complete list of the 830+ accredited, bachelor-degree granting colleges and universities which do not require all or most applicants to submit SAT (or ACT) score before admissions decisions are made is available free online at:
http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional
I am a well respected physician with fellowship training. If I believed in these tests I would be nowhere. I did extrememly bad on the SAT although a 3.98 in high school and extremely bad on MCAT with 3.82 in college with 2 BA's. These exams discourage and deter our youth...quite frankly they are pure crap and useless.....
I am an expert on the SAT and the ACT because I take both tests 3 times a year; I am also a parent of two college aged students; I also tutor students to prepare for the ACT and the SAT. So, my opinion is based on fact and and a tremendous amount of experience with teenagers taking the SAT and the ACT. First, it is a myth that these tests don't measure anything useful. Both reading tests measure a student's ability to accurately understand what an author says. I think that is an extremely useful skill to measure. Both tests measure a student's ability to accurately edit writing for grammar and punctuation errors. I find that many high schools don't teach grammar anymore; therefore, I find that I'm teaching them grammar knowledge (not tricks) to succeed on the SAT Writing or ACT English test. Do we need to debate whether students should be able to self-edit their own writing? With the prevalence of grade inflation (which I see first hand because I have students from 6 different high schools), I don't blame the universities for wanting a common measure to compare applicants. However, I think the emphasis on valuing a student more who can solve a problem in 30 seconds versus one who can solve a problem in 45 seconds is extremely misguided unless the student intends to be a pilot or an ER physician. I see many interesting, creative, very intelligent students who problem solve at a slightly slower pace, perhaps because they consider more factors in their environment as they problem solve. These are not students who score poorly on the test, but perhaps one level below what some considered "needed" for highly competitive school admission. Think of the many creative professions in which solving a critical problem is the real goal and a difference in seconds is not the distinguishing factor. I don't understand why the ACT and the SAT companies don't allow students to choose whether they want to take the test under extended time (and then report the scores as such). These companies are already providing extended time to students with learning disabilities; why not allow all students the option to test with extended time? Do we really believe that the world's greatest creative minds were mostly those who could solve a problem in 30 seconds versus 45 seconds? That is what these test makers would have you believe. I find that the time limits are rather arbitrary in that they are in place to ensure that only a certain quantity of the population scores above a certain number. Like all job-related performance tests (in which the courts have stated that test requirements must be related to on-the-job requirements), the time limits for the SAT and ACT should be objectively related to the time constraints a student is likely to face for midterms and finals in college.
Okay, SAT is just a NAME of a test. The bottom line is, We cannot compromise on education. Test taking should not scare the students and parents! life is full of tests and every parent must encourage their child to face an educational challenge just as they do with other activities such as sports.
Most of the messages above do not support SATs or any form of test taking. One important thing to remember: Money spent on education is NEVER WASTED!!! I don't care who is benefitting from it, if I work hard to learn, I know I am benefitted more than anyone.
Please take education seriously. Looking at the way things are going in our country- the chaos on wall street and auto industry and now heavy debate on healthcare... not to mention the global environmental problems etc, should we not prepare our children to lead us? ONLY GOOD STRONG EDUCATION WILL HELP!! there is no ifs or buts on this.
The children of today have to earn a good living by holding stable jobs, Guess what....,... they are the key to our Social security checks when it is time for us to retire!!!
Encourage kids to take tests, or get involved with your board of education to improve education at the foundational level in a way that kids will love to work hard and study. Be supportive and hold their tender hands and help them succeed.
I think I made my point. Once again-
"Kids are not vessels to be filled but lamps to be lit."
The SAT might not be perfect and might need to be modified, but there needs to be some method to compare students from different schools for the purpose of college admissions. A "B+" in one school could be a "C-" in another. It is much more fair to have, as just one admission criterion, a standardized test. I agree that spending inordinate amounts of time preparing just for the test is not likely to help one in college, however.
I am not surprised that students from the inner city who have, on average, had tougher and less priveledged upbrings than students from affluent areas score lower. This doesn't mean we should scrap the test. It isn't meant to be an indicator of absolute intelligence, but rather of college preparedness.
When reading these posts, I can't help but to think that some of the comments are "sour grapes" from people who did not ace this or a similar test in the past. Let's face it, there are lots of smart people in the U.S. to compete with, and that is good for all of us.
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/validity-studies
The link above will let you read validity studies on the SAT. Some are drafted by the test-writers and some are independently conducted by universities.
The bottom line is that SAT scores do a very good job of predicting freshman year grades in college. Period.
Many outraged readers are writing comments about their own personal stories, and parents have the right to form opinions based on the experiences of their own children, but they should be told that colleges value SAT/ACT scores based on scientific research conducted over several decades and involving millions of students.
Higher test scores do predict higher college GPA. Yes, there are exceptions. Yes, individual determination cannot be measured by a test, and yes, students with low test scores who are admitted to selective colleges can get good grades there, but statistically speaking these lower scoring students do not do as well, and likely will have to work harder to succeed in college, compared to students who scored well on standardized tests.
I know it's more satisfying to be outraged than to read scientific studies. But this discussion could serve a higher purpose if the people taking the time to write comments were better informed about the facts. By any measurement, objective, subjective, or otherwise, this country is wasting the potential of low-income and minority students by not providing them with a quality education. As long as THAT problem persists, the imperfections in how we measure our children are inconsiquentual by comparison.
You can keep saying that you don't think the SAT measures anything, but for every individual case you can point to of students with high or low SAT scores who defied the odds once they got to college, there are a thousand others whose SAT scores were (boringly) a good predictor of their freshman year grades.
scrap the SAT
I've seen good potential college kids fail and bad potential college kids pass.
They take numerous tests in school. if you are a 3.0 student in high school, you can bet the kids is going to do fairly well in college. If you are a 1.5 GPA, you've got issues that a high score SAT shouldn't be able to hide behind.
Both my kids are in college and one did well on their SAT and on did fair. They both however were 4.0 GPA high school students. They should not have had the SAT score be one of the major factors in what college they attended. They both are doing well in college and are well above a 3.0 GPA in college.
It's what you do in high school and your performances on the tests you take in high school that should decide – NOT THE SAT SCORE!!!
Okay so Let's dump SAT. What's next? How are we preparing our kids who are our future? As far as I know no other country can beat the American Education standard after grade school. How are we preparing our kids to be better leaders in all arenas?
Are we raising the standards of elementary education? All of us know that most public schools in our country donot meet the standards that the colleges are expecting.
We need to understand that a student who 3.0 GPA in high school may find it hard to score the same in college!
Wah, wah, wah! Look at all these people complaning about taking the SAT. This is what is wrong with America. People want to toss anything that is challenging. I think it is a good measure of aptitude. It makes sure you have a good understanding of the English language, and mathematical concepts. Just because you earned a Masters degree without taking the SAT doesn't make you smart. Educated does not equal intelligence. If your aptitude is low, you have to study a lot harder to get through the challenging courses. I suppose if you wanted to be the "artistic type" you could go to a liberal arts college that doesn't use the SAT. However we need more students studying math and science in this country, and I think the SAT measures ability in those areas very well. So stop complaining everyone. There's a very good REASON why colleges use this. Yes Canadian universities don't require SAT, but the educational system in Canada is much more even, so if you get through high school with decent grades, you will likely do O.K. in college. Not so in the U.S., where you can get through high school with a very poor command of English, and shockingly poor understanding of match and science. Some high schools hand out high grades easier than others.... so some standard test is required to separate the truly exceptional candidates. I don't know about you, but I don't want to go see a doctor who scored poorly on his SAT. However, then again, he or she probably would not have gained entry into a medical school with a poor SAT or poor grades. So the SAT does serve a useful purpose. Kick your lazy kids in the butt and make them STUDY for the SAT. We all have to do things in life that we don't like, or which take a lot of work, or which we think is not "fair". They should get used to it.... as it is preparation for LIFE and the real world.
Sam Chandra
Chicagoland.
As a college math instructor, I find that taking a standardized test is out of control and in particular, the SAT. The SAT test writers pride themselves on trying to trick the students, not necessarily measure their knowledge. The test is heavy on vocabulary at the expense of other English topics, the math section does not measure any trigonometry, and there is no science at all. SAT claims to measure ability. I don't believe you can measure this with their test. You can measure achievement which is what the ACT comes much closer to doing. Someone should study the correlation between the SAT/ACT scores and a student's performance in college to help determine if this is still a valid consideration for college admission and what types of changes need to be considered for the tests.
The concept of standardized tests and competitive entrance exams are not indicators of success. Motivation, which is difficult to measure, is much more important. While high scores get the attention of the best colleges, successes demonstrated through mobility programs for disadvantaged students at "the best colleges" reveal that, getting in...is the biggest hurdle. My wife and I have Ph.D. degrees, 3.9+ average (doctoral) from a respectable university, the University of Mississippi (Ole Miss), and we both were not great or even good at standardized testing. Yes, standardized testing, is a "good ole boy (girl)" system where the affluent have beaten the system. Medical School and the MCAT is also not accurate as to who will be successful in Medical School. There are 3 or 4 super qualified students who want to go into medicine to help the sick, not get rich. Once again, the system of testing allows for restricted entrance. Oh well, I'm 58..., I gotta get over it. Yes, you guessed, I am a white caucasian from Mississippi who voted for President Obama.
Kudos to everyone for applying critical reasoning to this outdated institution.
Beyond the test's lack of predictive value, how much of what the students learn as they study so dilligently for this exam is applied to real life afterward? If after completing the exam the students had obtained some practical knowledge that carried them ahead in their academic or professional careers I'd be more supportive. One could argue that the pressure itself is a test, regardless of the content of the exam, but I don't think it's being billed that way. I took it, and did ok, but the reason I did so well in college (only 2 C's for my undergrad) didn't have anything to do with the contents on that exam, but instead it had to do with my commitment to obtaining my degree. There are many smart students who are not committed who drop out. The statistics for college drop outs after year 1 is extremely high. It's not because they can't handle the material, it's other factors that aren't being addressed by anyone. Retention is a huge problem for higher education today.
I'm in agreement that the test should be scrapped, but it's not near and dear enough to my heart today to institute some action. I'd like to issue the challenge to someone who is motivated and committed to help take this cause beyond this interesting string of comments. Take the issue to the next level and see what you can accomplish. You'll go down in history as the one who sunk the SAT! Now that woud be a predictor of future success....
People live by measures and methods of comparison. I don't think the SAT is a good measure of intelligence, but it is one measure of English and math aptitude.
However, I attended K-12 in Fair Lawn, NJ, where my 1977 SAT English score was just below 500 and math was just above it. In the politics of parents income and trips to Europe, I just figured that I was not one of those really smart kids despite my A- g.p.a. That part stuck.
Fortunately, in junior high, two years earlier, I'd taken a two-day nationwide "Differential Aptitude" exam. It measured spatial reasoning, abstract reasoning, verbal intelligence, mathematical, etc. not as clearly defined as but still similar in theory to Howard Gardner's "Seven Intelligences." It was a broader (read: better) measure of intelligence than the SATs.
I have no recollection of receiving the Differential Aptitude test results and even remember asking my guidance counselor if a 132 IQ was "okay." She stifled a smile, said it was very good and I was relieved. I didn't refer to the paper until about ten years ago when I found it shoved in a drawer.
Apparently, on this test, the most important score and the clearest indicator of "intelligence," the results sheet said, was a combination of two scores. On a nationwide percentile, I registered a score of 97, or I was in the top 3% of people my age with this score. I was laughing at my own surprise as I thought, "I am smart!"
I turned the paper over, then, to read the careers suggested for people with this high combination score. It included careers in engineering, architecture, etc., but said that I would make an excellent secretary. It took me years to understand that answer meant "...because you are female."
Stark differences in life exist and they are both real and imagined; even hobos compare each other's status, so while the times will influence the measurement device, money and power will continue to measure the influence.
My daughter has taken both the act and sat tests. Scored dramatically better on the act than act during the same month. All colleges she looked at accept either score. Different focuses on the tests. Might try switching tests to improve scores.
dear carol–re: SAT'S–i am a school psychologist with 5 degrees and very well versed in advanced statistics. i've been SCREAMING for years that group standardized tests are BARELY VALID. however, this holds true for almost all group tests. we have statewide testing, the tenth grade OHIO GRADUATION TEST, etc., etc., etc. schools are spending billions of dollars on these tests, not realizing how much money test writing companies are making–two main test writing centers dominate the field whom i shall not name. HOWEVER, schools in OHIO are making a tragic trade off–hiring rookies, or inexperienced personnel as a trade off. these young fledglings usually graduate from a watered down college curriculum. they are judgung our children's ability, using these scores for placement and identification. albeit it legal, the question remains: is it ETHICAL/MORAL? i was trained at a time when ethical practice and folowing "BEST PRACTICES" was drilled into us. there is such a fine line between the questionable LEGAL and ETHICAL. i can't even get hired by schools because of my experience and over-educated status. I do get called to perform independent evaluations requested by parents who either began due process or have attorneys involved. our ohio schools do not realize were these evaluations completed properly from the beginning, parents would not get attorneys. however, our schools are just too CHEAP to hire experienced personnel, and will face due process sometime. Ohio schools, however, seem to have plenty of money to hire administrators who know nearly nothing about the properties of testing. HOW IRONOC! and don't, please foret the highly ridiculous NCLB aka "NO TEACHER LEFT STANDING!" veteran teachers have been bending over backwards to help students long before NCLB. it frightens me that Obama is even botheribg to revise it–there goes more wasted money. what he really needs are local federal regulators–veteran educators evaluatin schools' practices. by the way, as an aside, i have worked at your school of attendance in Ohio. Great district. if you want a good resource, check out the school psychologists handbook of BEST PRACTICES–it may even be on-line. i am truly frustrated with this whole mess as i can't even get a return response from the u.s. dept. of education. Carol, Please email me–i cannot email CNN on my computer system, and the techies can't even figure it out. also, if you need more research for testing, try BUROUGH'S MENTAL MRASUREMENTS–should be on line or any university library. i know this is far too long for t.v. news, but i feel it was my obligation as a life-long child/parent advocate. THANK YOU SO MUCH–I JUST LOVE YOU.
This morning I've read most of the comments on the SAT and ACT. While I certainly agree that these tests cause undue stress, I can't ignore the fact that kids who score at a certain level on the ACT will probably be successful at our local state university, and those who get in on the basis of their high school grades and curriculum (but who don't have the test score they need) tend to drop out or fail. The data is there. As a high school counselor, I know all too well that a given math, chemistry, English class at one school is not the equivalent of a class with the same title at another - we have so many kids coming into my system with A's and B's in other districts, but they are woefully unprepared for the scholastic rigor here. The ACT/SAT is the great leveller - the common measure.
Just a few years ago, the last few holdout colleges decided to accept the ACT as well as the SAT. Here in the Midwest, the ACT has been in common use for years - the ACT costs less, takes less time, is given more times during the school year, is essay-optional.
get rid of the SAT test.
My daughter scored 1200 on the SAT and is stressed because her score does not meet the requirements of her colleges of choice. So this summer, I paid for her to attend the Young Scholars Program at the University of Maryland, College Park where she complete a 3 week class with a GPA 4.000 and earned her first 3 college credits. This program gave her the confidence she needed in this senior year of high school. After visiting a couple of colleges this summer, we were told that her entire high school portfolio would reviewed at admissions. It seems the SAT/ACT are screening methods to pick and choose who is accepted. All students who desire to go to college should be afforded the opportunity instead of being judged by points scored on the SAT/ACT. Look at these high scoring students who are so dependent on technology to Tell Time, Count Change and Calculate Tips". There are many who flunk out of college because they have been pressured to consistenly score high throughout high school and then later in college, they fail because of burnout.
Let our teachers teach our kid the necessary life skills to work anywhere in the world. Our kids need to hold on to their country by learning and living from the old Made in America Way.
My daughter still feels pressured to retake the SAT/ACT hoping to score higher, Has anyone check the high school grades and SAT/ACT scores of the corporate leaders of these test. Instead of spending money on the SAT/ACT corporate monsters, pay our teacher that extra money and let them teach like they know how.
Use technology and DELETE SAT/ACT. Pay TEACHERS more to strengthen the future leaders of America, because our kids need to think on their own and not be so dependent on technology to think for them. I am not a teacher, but a full-time parent volunteer who supports schools.
Its free if you wanna send the test scores to the colleges BEFORE you take the test and before you get YOUR scores.
Its costs 8 bucks to send it AFTER you get your scores.
What a scam.
Scrap the SAT!!!!! I have one daughter in college and one who is entering her senior year in HS. They both took the SAT 3 times. Both took classes and had tutors. They are both great students. We are an upper middle class family. My older daughter had an above average score but it was not anywhere near perfect. She is a junior in college and has a 4.0 GPA, has a leadership role in many extracurricular activities and has been working at a few internships. This year she will travel to Europe to study economics with her class. She is a top student. Many colleges would have passed her up because her SAT score was not as high as some in IVY leaque schools. They would have lost a great student who knows how to work hard and loves learning. My second daughter received a score that is ten points shy of the cutoff for the honors college from her top choice school. She is applying anyway and hopefully they will weigh the other parts of her application. If they pass her up they too will lose a great student.
My older daughter has plenty of friends that had perfect scores and many of them have already dropped out. If you do not have the work ethic or drive to succeed in college, and in life, your SAT score means nothing.
All the time spent preparing for this test is a waste. They could be working, traveling and doing things to prepare them for the real world. I had to buy into the entire SAT game because that is how it is played right now. I spent plenty of money and time driving them to their classes only because I had to. I can't wait for more colleges to get on board with scrapping the test. The collegeboard is making a fortune and has scammed the country. Even the magazine "rankings" based much of their results on these scores. Big business that affects our kids choices. I mean – C'mon – one test, one day, to predict the next 4 -6 years of your life? I don't think so.
While the SAT might be a good "evaluation" TOOL, I do not think it should be administered in High School. Todays schools have gotten off the path of education. Reading, Writing & Arithmatic should be the main goal, yet schools have gone "soft" on these subjects. Offering advanced math, foreign languages and other subjects should be part of college. The other point I would like to make is that we constantly tell our children how important an education is while downgrading the status of having a high school diploma. Many, many employers are starting to frown on people getting a job when they only have a high school diploma. On the other hand with the situation we are in today even those with college diplomas are having problems getting a job, which, for me, goes back to the importance of good, quality, high schools.
I have said all along that the SAT and ACT are nothing more that a Money Rip off. I have never been a good all-day test taker. I took these tests back in 1972 and scored barely in the teens. I was however accepted into a college based on my High School Grades. I have a Masters Degree and starting my 29th year in Education. I think they need to scrap both the SAT and ACT test. After all, it only shows how good a test taker you are on that day. Not how smart you are or what you have inside of you to achieve your goals.
I think they should get rid of the SAT because to me it is not an efficient tool to measure how an individual will do in College. Personally, I did horrible on the SAT and somehow I got into Sweet Briar College. I think what schools should really look at are the grades that students received in high school. Additionally, I think each individual can succeed whether or not they did well on the SAT because of their work ethic and their ability to ask for help on an assignment when the student is having trouble.
Our son scored 1710 on the SAT. He didn't have a tutor, or go to a special school. We don't make $200,000 a year.He has parents that worked with him from day one to learn as much as he can. We taught him to read and to do addition and subtraction at age 3. He became a TIP student ( Duke Univ. Talent Idenification Program) and took the old SAT in 7th grade. He got a 960. My wife is a stay at home mom. I make just under $40,000 per year with a family of 4.Our daughter, his 8yr younger sister, is following in his footsteps."We" work with our kids to learn so the can do better than us, to be successful in life. "We" the parents, are our kids teachers and schools are just tools in their education.
Let,s look at our most intelligent scientists,inventors and scholars throughout our history. Many is Albert Einstein Roosevelt and Churchill NEVER could test well! SAT is no measure of intelligence. All of us learn differently using different ways; visual, oratory...as we each have our own AH HA moments Texas we our stuck with TAKS test. Children can freeze and get sick over the pressure. Later on even in college the suicide rate is up because of kids under all the buildup of stress! Many don 't even have time to just grow up beginning as early as childhood! You are right. Many people make a lot of money from these tests. Where are our values?
As the story points out, the SAT is only one of many metrics considered by an admissions board when considering a student for admission. If a student can prepare and manage the stress of this exam, they "may" also have the same ability to do so when preparing for college level exams over the next 4 years. Can you be a succesful college student if you did not perform well on the SATs? – Absolutely! But consider this: A college is looking at two students with similar grades, both are athletes, both work part-time and are active in community activities but one took the SATs twice and averaged a score that was several hundred points higher than an applicant who also took the test several times ... would it not make sense that the FIRST student is the one who is offered admission? I will tell you in fact ... that is exactly the case!
A comment during this story that a student with parents who make less than $20,000 will score lower than a student with parents bringing in over $200,000 is incredibly misleading. Do you not think that the parents with the higher income are more likely to be college graduates? That they put greater emphasis on education and have nurtured their children since early childhood differently than parents who have not completed post-high-school education? In which household are the discussions at the dinner table more likely to contain topics of money, current events, geography and problem solving and which will be about How I hate my boss" and the latest NASCAR standings? Why do you think great athletes usually have children who are also great athletes? In fact, Don't you find it interesting that the best Nascar drivers are often offspring of former champions? Why would this be any different in education? It's not about being able to afford an SAT tutor ...
does anyone have a list of the schools that do not require the SAT or ACT. Thanks,
A simple solution to the S.A.T. testing dilemma would be to break the test into multiple parts and administrating those parts in a random methodology as "pop tests". This would help in the measurement of knowledge. However for Juniors and Seniors taking the test, during the year, may seem a little like living in a room knowing one day a rattle snake will be put in the room every once in a while.
It would definitely test their ability to be tested under stress, with the only preparedness being their knowledge.
Sean Ruhlman
14 years old
Tampa Bay
Good Morning CNN, The ? at hand is should the SAT be eliminated from the University system in order for students to be accepted into and/or to determine how intelligent a student is for the specific university they are applying for. When I took my Pre-SAT in High School I scored a total of 750 for all three sections considering I did not do the essay and the scores varied, when I took my real SAT I scored the same 750 with no essay but the scores were exactly opposite of what I scored on the Pre-SAT. What does that tell a university about my intelligence? NOTHING, I do not like tests and I never have so the test was not able to determine anything about my high school comprehension or my comprehension of school at all. I know for a fact that I have an IQ of 139 – which makes me very intelligent, even though I was raised in a low income family on the east coast and I could not read until 2nd grade. The SAT is just another way for people to make more money from families even though they already pay BOO KOO bucks just for their children to attend college. I can rip a car/truck/motorcycle apart piece by piece with no instructions and put it back together again with no instructions and I am pretty certain that a student with an SAT score of 2200 or somewhere in the "Harvard" acceptance bracket would not be able to do the same. Either way the SAT says nothing about intelligence and its just another test that was created to create revenue, just as state agencies such as Highway Patrol or State Police have fines and fees for traffic violations so that they can create revenue for their roads and highways.....
The only test that should be considered in University's is the ability to comprehend common sense, right and wrong – and the ability to understand the true nature of the world we live in today – which is always changing......
I most definitely feel the SAT should be scrapped along with all standardized testing. The idea that a three hour test can sum up a
persons ability and knowledge is ludicrous! The physical anxiety and emotional pressure one has before and during these test surely alter
one's outcome as well. I was on the Dean's list every semester at a Big Ten college and graduated with honors, Magna Cum Laude and Phi Betta Kappa. I transferred credits from a Community college which waived the need for SAT scores. If my entrance into College depended on SAT's I never would have been given the chance to succeed as I did. The thought that any student who attends class, participates in discussions, studies hard and receives B or above grades consistently in school, would be denied entrance to a program or higher learning institution is appalling.
A family acquaintance recently scored a perfect score on his SATs. He, as well as my 16 year old son, have Asperger's syndrome, a form of high-functioning autism. Although both at extremely bright and test well, they are micro-managed at home and at school, requiring an intervention specialist to help them keep organized and to train them in social skills. To say the the SATs are a good indicator of skills necessary for college is simply wrong. It may be or may not be a good measure of ACADEMIC skills but there are many skills needed to be successful in college and in the workforce. These boys are truly exception in their intelligence but how that will be transferred to success in college and on the job is yet to be determined and will not happen unless they continue to have intervention services.
Keep the SAT. It's the only way to PROVE what a student has LEARNED in school. It doesn't measure anything else. It also separates the home schooled from the real students. If you can't prove you can do algebra, you can't be accepted into an engineering curriculum that requires calculus. The argument for algebra applies to all other subjects as well. End of discussion.
SAT/ACT/PRAXIS etc...these test show only how well you test. You can't tell me someone is not making money off of them.
I have felt this way for many years. I have always scored low on standardized testing. My scores do not reflect my private college GPA of 3.7
If a college/university is in the habit of using these test to award scholarships, then they should create their own exam for the scholarships awards without any cost to the incoming student.
Like most college graduates, I took the SATs. It is not necessarily a window on how smart a person is rather an indication of how much information one has retain from high school classes. I am a former student and now a teacher in one of the largest school districts in the country, which is very successful in preparing students for higher academic studies and consequently earns high SAT scores.
When I took the test, we did not cram for it. Our parents and we were instead aware that the lessons we were experiencing were IMPORTANT and we paid attention.
The fact that so many groups are "making a living" off of test preparation shows that some schools, both private and public, do not prepare their students and some parents and students are not actually studying in school or lack the background necessary to do well on the test.
Perhaps our country should be more concerned about the cause and not the effect.
Both my children went through the agonizing torture of preparing and taking the SAT's compounded by the nail-biting wait for the results!
I have always said this test should be done away with since it is no measure of a child's true intelligence nor a prediction of how well they will do in college!
Rather look to the child's school records as an indicator of their potential and skills.
Ultimately we need to fix this dilemma from the ground up and start by improving our school systems and paying our educators more.
Colleges and Universitites should also return to the basics of more time consuming interviews for applicants to really get a grasp of their true potential-as big companies do when they hire people!
Even though they deny it, colleges still use a good SAT score to "weed out" students who may simply be poor testers!
Basing a decision which can be life changing to a child on a multiple choice test which can be "beat" with expensively gained "skills" is simply outrageous and should be prohibited!
The SAT does not serve as an accurate test for measurement of a students potential in college. I my self did horrible on the test, taking it twice and scoring horribly. Yet, all throughout my high school career I was always on the Honor roll with A's and B's, and I graduated with honors. Right now I am a junior in at Appalachian State University with my lowest grow being a B+ despite taking considerably hard classes. The SAT has barely any correlation to how I have performed in college. Many of my fellow students agreed that the SAT should be removed when we heard about some colleges were not even looking at them to judge character about a year ago. Much potential is lost when basing a student's lifetime potential off of a few hour long test. Not to mention it is a bit pricey even for the average American now days. Those who argue to keep the test are the people who still believe that nobody is a bad test taker and tests reveal much about a person's potential. Colleges should just remove the SAT and look at the students' academic achievement regarding grades and effort in school.
I strongly think that we need to get rid of the SATs! I was sautatorian of my class graduating with a 4.0 ,10 years ago. I did awful on my SATs(even after taking them twice)but was still accepted and graduated with honors from an accredited well known University. I had a friend who I distinctly remember falling asleep during the middle of the SATs and made a score you would think a 4.0 or higher student would make. The girl made straight Cs and could only get accepted to a community college. Overall, it's plain and simple: how good of a student you were in high school shows how much you learned there and how well you will later do in college!
The SAT has always been just a money making tool. It's never been fair and has always been stacked against minorities. It doesn't predict how a child will do in college it's just another tool that is used for exclusion. My apologies if this isn't politically correct!
I am currently in Graduate School in NC. And I strongly feel that there shouldn’t be a SAT/ACT system!!!! I have never been a great test taker over a large amount of accumulated material. In High school I received a low SAT score which didn’t allow me to go to the college of my choice for a few semesters. With that said I Graduated with a 3.4 GPA earning my Undergraduate degree. I just recently decided to go back to school for my masters degree and was faced to take another test (GRE or GMAT) and felt the pressure I once did in high school. Long story short once again I wasn’t able to get in the school of my choice because I’m not a good test taker. I am in Grad school and will finish this program with nothing less than a 3.8 GPA. With that said these test DO NOT show one’s ability for college!!!!! Just for that test, the sky is the limit.
Any one test should not be weighted as much as the SAT is currently. Not everyone is a good test taker. Many of today's kids inherently do not have long attention spans. I can empathize with them since almost everything has been virtually handed to them. They don't what it is to use a pay phone or not have a microwave. I have Consultants who work for me and other colleagues who make six figures who scored poorly on the SAT and like many people didn't have the best math grades in college.
I believe more emphasis should be placed on courses such as Home Economics. Many kids today don't know how to save or balance a checkbook. In this era of big government and rewarding irresponsibility this will ultimately put a tremendous strain on those that do.
In 1979, I did pretty badly on the SAT (1000/1600), but, with good grades and extra-curricular activities, I managed to get into a very reputable, college. I thrived and graduated cum laude.
For me, my poor performance on the SAT only showed that I didn't take prep courses and that I freaked out with anxiety about the test. Thankfully, my college was able to discard my SAT scores and see my potential as a student based on past performance, solid application and interview.
The SAT is BS.
I feel that the trend to rely on test results as a predictor of anything in education has led to the overuse of medications that keep especially our little boys drugged in their seats...completely malleable and manageable for our bureaucratically overwhelmed educators. The testing industry is a huge, for-profit organization that loves No Child Left Behind, because how else can you quantify achievement they say...right? What a great way to corner the market, and destroy the creativity and spontaneity of our children!
My daughter was rejected from a good college, I feel, solely on the basis of her SAT scores: she is one of those kids who test poorly but work extremely hard. She graduated in the top 10% of her class from a good high school; she took honors classes; she rowed crew for 2 years; she was in student government for 4 years and was in other activities as well. Her only "flaw" was less than 1200 on the SAT (the old SAT). Could she have done the work from this "good" school – absolutely. But she was never given the chance.
Conversely, a friend of hers whose grades were much poorer than hers, but had a +1200 on the SATs was admitted to this said institution on academic probation!
As far as I can see, schools use the SAT as their first cut.
There was a study done a few years ago addressing the predictability of the SAT for college academic performance. The predictability for the first year of college was 6%, after that there was no correlation between the test result and academic performance in college.
I always believed the SAT was NOT an indicator of college success. In the early 1980's when I was in high school, I challenged that notion and did not take the SAT. My high school guidance counselor didn't exactly support the idea, but said "Let's see how this plays out." Well, FOUR college graduations and two majors later, I feel like I made the right decision. I say to those who are exploring college options, roll the dice and you may not be one bit sorry about not taking the SAT. Good luck.
It has never been fair and never will be fair. I'd like to see the stats comparing SAT scores to the actual GPA and graduation rates of students. With the amount of money generated by the design, distribution, administration, tutoring, and grading of the SAT I don't expect to see it go away any time soon.
At first glance I would be inclined to say that the 800 educational institutions who have made the SAT optional have made a huge
mistake, however given the volume of scoring issues that have
developed with the SAT; I can't in good conscience say that the
SAT should be made mandatory again at this time.
I don't believe the SATs are a true indicator of how a student may do in college. As a person who did not do overly well on the SATs when I took them, I was still able to graduate Magna Cum Laude from an accredited engineering program at one of the top engineering schools in the country. I can see where the SATs are a good 'common ground' for students accross the nation to be tested since levels of education vary so greatly, but at the same time I don't believe that they are an effective way of accomplishing that.
I am now 25 years old and took the SAT's back in high school. At the time, I scored really low barely breaking 1000 and I believe this really hurt my shot at going to an elite school. I am now currently working full time and attending DeVry University part time with a 4.0 average. I think the SAT's are nothing more than a stressor used to test how well kids do under high stress test environments.
-Jessica
Somerville, NJ
If we want to ask about scrapping the SAT, which I believe would be a great idea, maybe we should consider scrapping the rest of the College Board's sea of acronyms; e.g MCAT, GMAT, GRE....
One of the reasons I opted not to apply to medical school was the cost of not only taking the MCAT but also the cost to prepare. In seeing some of my peers spend thousands on classes and tutoring I just assumed that I did not stand a chance against them since I couldn't afford the same.
So If we want to ask "Scrap the SAT?" then maybe we need to think about all the big money making scams from the College Board.
I dont think the SAT are necessary because after prepping classes and afterschool meetings, I scored a 1000 out of 1600. Community college only needs ACT scores and doesnt require SAT. The point is that I graduated with a civil engineering degree, transferred to an accredited college in NYC and am finishing a 5 year Bach of Architecture. I work in a very prestigious office and am doing fine. I think that the SAT is not a score of intelligence but rather test taking, and patience. Any high school student would be tourchered to have to take that 5 hr test again where the concept of the test is to leave questions blank if your not sure so that question does not count against your overall score?!
I do not feel that the SAT is necessary for college. I feel this way because when I started college in the Fall of 2007 the college had placed me in a low math class because of my SAT score. When I told them I took Calculus my senior year and passed with an A, they bumped me up. Suddenly, my SAT scores did not matter. Why were they such a big deal in the first place?
There was a study done a few years ago addressing the predictability of the SAT for college academic performance. The predictability for the first year of college was 6%, after that no correlation. But, it's a test, and we love those multiple choice tests!
Our school district recently eliminated class rank, saying more colleges don't care about it. (They want to see the level of classes taken and associated grades.) If so, doesn't that leave colleges relying more on SAT scores? It's the "great levelers" across the country. A "B" in one school's chemistry class could be an "A" in another but the SAT test is the same (for better or worse).
I doubt the SATs are going anywhere for that reason; college admission officers need some sort of initial cut-off when looking at thousands of applications.
And you didn't mention the ACT – which we've never even heard of here in the Northeast but is becoming more popular. Where does that fit in?
Being a recent college graduate within the last few years, I can tell you that the SATs are completely pointless. The fact that the head of the SAT board is trying to say that these standardized tests help students in college is ridiculous. There is nothing on those tests you don't learn in High School that can help you your Freshman year of college. As a matter of fact, a typical Freshman year of college is just a review of High School material, that is what all the General Ed stuff is for. It makes me happy to see that Universities are making the SAT's optional. SATs= unnecessary stress!
take the math section for example, when my son took the SAT he was completing AP Calculus, the SAT test on Algebra I and Geometry, his first time around he tried to make the math problems harder than they were.....
You nailed it with the closing remark, "too many are making money off the SAT for it to be discarded." That speaks volumes about who and what is really important, it is definitely not the kids.
I think the SAT shows how much the student tries. You don't need an expensive tutor to get a good score on your ACT. All you need to do is try your hardest.
I believe students who get lower scores didn't try as hard as students who got good scores. Success doesn't come with intelligence, or money...Success only comes with ambition.
The SAT is a waste of time and does not and did not measure how smart I was or am at present time. I've been pretty successful...more than the average person my age. By the way, the GMAT should also go away. I literaly fall asleep during standarized tests..they bore me
the sat is just a middleman to make a buck, thirty years ago it was a standardized test, you went in cold, everyone on a level playing field, how fair is it that if you are rich, you can spend money for your kid to prepare. my sons took the sat without prep, scored decently, made average scores, so apparently unprepared college students can inflate their abilities by cramming and manipulating this test, they need to start over, design a test that actually measures knowlege, aptitude, and critical thinking skills, OR SCRAP the whole thing
My daughter is a very creative type and those kids traditionally do poorly on these tests. She is excelling going into her 3rd year of college studying costume design.
Hey Carol. I am from Aberdeen. I went to Aberdeen High School in the mid-80s and had to take the SAT. I hated it! I worked at McD's on Rt. 22 the night before and had to close that night (which was around 11 p.m. not getting home until 1 a.m.) Then I woke up and promptly failed miserably on the SAT in Bel Air, MD the next morning!
Well, I did ok at Univ of Maryland College Park, but dropped out. Then I went back and finished my BS in computer science. Ten years later, I went back to Maryland and received my MBA finishing at the top of my class.
So for me, the SAT didn't hurt or help. I had a great GPA in high school and was very active in my community and church. I was accepted at many upper tier colleges, but decided to stay close to home. My low score didn't help or hinder me. Ultimately, it comes down to whether you can do the job you're hired for.
Love you Carol. You do a great job.
Tell Kieren Chetry - "Fear the Turtle"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (we're both Maryland alumns)
Scrape the test, but not the need for data that predicts a student's skill ability and success rate at a post-secondary level. It's about time that we "replace" the SAT's with performance benchmarks that are accumulated throughout a student's high school career. Instead of a single test score accumulated during a three hour test. These benchmarks should capture a student's capacity to successfully use skills under different sets of circumstances, from answering test questions, to solving practical problems, to making tough decisions, to crosswalking theory to practice. These data should clearly illustrate a student's ability to meet the elipitical challenges of living, rather than just the linear challenges of textbook study.
Colleges that have First Year Experience program or summer classes for incoming freshmen whose GPA is at or below their requirement for "good standing" admission have broken the code for "measuring or insuring the probability of success". Students High School 4 year GPA is the measure of how well they performed in pre-college classes. It has always been ludicrous, in my opinion, that one test would carry so much weight on one's advanced eucation future and financial assistance. Maybe the SAT and ACT costly "crash course curriculum" should be the one standard text books and courses that are required and taught in every high school across the nation in order to balance the scale of the variable of family income (not race) that closely predicts success on these tests. Oh, by the way, I have read ACT research report on the profound success of the ACT test and the research was done by ACT employees. Go figure!
As with any test, the S.A.T. , will test knowledge somewhat. However, it primarily tests a person’s “Test Taking Ability”. Universities are awarding scholarships on a students ability to “beat” the test. Just as students don’t learn the Pythagorean theorem, and only learn the 3,4,5 technique or trick for the S.A.T. is not much different than training a horse or dog to count with a tapping of a foot or hoof. The students don’t learn Latin roots, they only memorize the vocabulary that appeared on past tests. Parental, University and social pressure add to the farce of the S.A.T. . Think about it, attaining bragging rights for parroting answers, rather than encouraging a love of learning and expansion of knowledge. In my opinion, this is why the U.S. is falling behind year after year. Competing for grades will always breed short cuts and tricks to beat the system. The only creative part of this, is the person that devises the cheat, short cut or trick.
Sean Ruhlman
14 years old
Tampa Bay
The SAT is not an achievement test.(They give those, too.) It is not an IQ test. It is a cleverness and language skills test. That may be a useful, but it doesn't predict what a student will actually achieve in college. It has biases and flaws. Most of the biases are toward clever children with great language skills. That may skew the results. The ACT has much less of this bias.
When you look at parent academic backgrounds (number of years of school,) you find the children of academically achieving parents often do better. Academically achieving parents are more likely to have academically achieving kids. One would expect that.
The problem is when bright kids come from non-academically achieving homes. When kids come from non-academically achieving homes, they need to be evaluated by more than test results. Many schools are pretty adept at this. Admitting kids only by their scores will not work.
The good news is that all these test prep courses don't change the numbers much. They make parents feel better. Taking a couple of practice tests, getting a good night's sleep and sharpening those #2 lead pencils is really all you need.
The SAT should be eliminated. I remember studying for that test – I took it twice and still made a little over 900 (back in the 80s). Did it stop me from going to college? No – in fact, I have two degrees and have been a Registered Nurse for 11 years. A person's intelligence should not be based solely on a test that does not prepare a person for real life. I don't remember the SAT ever affecting my college classes. Do away with the SAT, and let students get into college based on their scholastic achievements.
The S.A.T. is a waste of time eventhough I posted a score of 1380. It is a distorted measurement of one's true intelligence. Let the grades of each student earn their right to any College or University. The S.A.T is meaningless and it's time to get rid of it. Throw it into the garbage can and leave it for the dogs to eat.
It seems the SATs no longer test what one has learned in school, but how well they have learned to take the test. Too bad we can't go back to the way it was when I took the test. We didn't study for it; we just went ant took the test one Saturday.
Scrap the SAT? What SAT? Higher education was so bad during the fifties when I graduated from high school that I was not even advised there was a test!. Yes, I am a Black man. I later went to college after a tour in the Navy and graduated Cum Laude. But I doubt if I had taken the SAT, I would have been admitted to college. You see my mother had a second grade education and my father eighth. Much of what we learn is from our household. I thought the place where we wash our hands was called a ZINK (including the spelling) So if I were asked the definition of SINK I would have gotten it wrong and probably classified as unteachable. But if I were asked the difference between a stilson wrench and a monkey wrench I could do so. Because THAT I was taught by my father who was a mechanic. But I do not think educators are as interested in one's knowledge of wrenches as they are as "does a tree make noise when it falls in the woods if no one is there to hear it".
I am a parent and a high school social studies teacher whose daughter has taken the S.A.T. It is bad enough that our kids have been programed that their intelligence is measured on a numerical score which realistically says nothing about their academic ability or success. But these exams affects students self-esteem which may have lifetime effects. As teachers we repeatedly tell our students they are our "future leaders". These exams are closing doors for our future leaders. DO AWAY WITH THE S.A.T.s.
My daughter put her life on hold for 6 month's studying the GRE's a master degree pretesting program. This test is to pigeon hole candidates I think unfairly. I was not allowed to even call her for fear she would be studying. After having a somewhat rebelious youthful beginning she got her BA in Psychology and desperately wants her masters and PsyD. She has worked in Newark youth and gang facilities and now works for another mental health facility so this is obviously her passion. She did not do well on the test by the way which costs hundreds of dollars to take. Now her career as a mental health provider is in danger. A lot of students who would make excellent candidates for these careers have not good testing abilities and are very anxious. A person who does test well may not have the emotional connection and not make a good provider. How unfair. Myk
My boys are both Gifted, but they didn't score very high on the SAT.
Their gpa(s) are 3.45 and 3.9 at the University. Kenny is an electrical engineer and Ronny is studying civil engineering. My point is that they are both very smart, yet they didn't score very high on the SAT. Therefore, I believe that this SAT testing should be abolished.
Kema
Scrapping the SAT and other objective measures of intelligence and achievement would be just one more step in the dumbing down of the United States of America. To say they are culturally dependent is correct – they reflect a culture that values intelligence, achievement and the principle that inate ability should matter more than politics, nepotism and cronyism (our core values, however imperfectly we practice them at times) . Our laws and institutions recognize and allow for exceptions for the truly culturally disadvantaged – let's not give a pass to the rest to the detriment of us all.
As far as the KIPP principal you interviewed- he's right. Any standardized educational assessment is written by middle class whites, testing from their knowledge and experience base. His kids, like my students, miss out. Factor in test anxiety that occurs when minority students take such tests, and they're doubly wronged.
The SAT is nothing more than a judgment tool. I wanted to go to UCLA, my hopes and dreams were shot down because I scored a 700. I went to CAL STATE SAN BERNARDINO, and earned a degree in History. I worked for the Federal Department of Justice, and now I am a Police Officer in California. The SAT is a money maker, and it is a tool which discriminates against students in America. It dictates your career path in life and that is not right for anyone.
Everything in the 21st century is based off testing. Its no longer based on our commitment to become a better person by means of learning. Here is the bottom line, THE SAT IS A "WEEDING OUT TOOL." Its like saying your VALID or INVALID. If you don't score x amount of points you don't fit in, and then your left at the bottom of society. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO CAST JUDGMENT ON STUDENTS WHO DON'T SCORE WELL ON A TEST.
Personally, I don't think we should completely do away with SATs. America is already finding itself lagging behind most of the counties when it comes to education. I have a suggestion: Children must be exposed to practice test during their High School years that don't impact their HS transcipt, and by allowing more time to complete their test. By allowing more time, the child may be able to answer the question (s) correctly, instead of answering it wrong in a hurry to complete the test on time. They may also be asked to circle the questions that took longer time to answer, and educators must use them as a guide to improve learning skills.
Thanks for taking time to read my message, I would like to end with 2 quotes by my GURU :
1) Youth are not Useless, they are USED LESS
2) Children are not vessels to be filled but lamps to be lit.
Thank you
At the age of 11 I came from England to Canada. Having studied Latin French Algebra and some Geometry for four or five years by that time, whereas my peers has not yet been introduced to these subjects, school authorities pushed me a couple of years ahead. So I aced certain tests but sucked at science, botany, subjects that were new to me.
All the tests showed was I was better at things in which I had more experience and a strong grounding which was not the same thing as intelligence or maturity.
Over the years, however, I did become adept at spotting for tests.
President Obama needs to fix educational system in this country just like health care. I strongly believe SAT has no value or importance for the college but this is money making machine for SAT executives. I know the Kids who have 1100 in SAT they have done so well in the college graduate with 3.9 GPA and on other hand kids scored above 2000 in SAT they have GPA 3.2 or 3.3 in the college. It is very difficult to measure what child have learn or not but it is a total commitment from the child. I challenge the people who are the in charge of SAT program. I will give them 100 questions about (History, Math, Science, Geography and other general knowledge questions of the world and they can answer only 40 to 50 percent. This is my open challenge..
The SAT is truly outdated and unnecessary. I took the test (over 15 years ago) knowing that I would do poorly due to a learning disability. I still got into a good four year college, graduated with a Bachelor Degree in just 4 years and went onto a very successful career. Looking back, the test did nothing except caused a lot undue stress.
I am a parent, teacher and previous SAT taker. As a parent I watched my children sweat over the SAT, but it's a rite of passage. As a teacher, however, I watch high school students take standardized tests all year. By the time the SAT comes in the spring, these students are "tested out." The SAT may cause some stress, but if they weren't so sick of taking tests, they may do better on it. Standardized testing is numbing our youth, and the scores are no longer valid because they just "go through the motions." With the rigor and relevance we're using in the classroom and the differentiated instruction, a single test cannot possibly measure what a young person can do. If it is a non-profit test, how am I and 5 other teachers being paid &80.00 to sit and watch them take it?
My graduate school statistics professor stated that there was NO relationship between the SAT score and how well a student performed in college.
Are the SATs necessary?
Before a test is taken to enter college, a test should be taken to graduate high school.
Minimum standards of learning must be established to graduate from high school.
The S.A.T.s aren't cool.They are a powerful test that causes so much stress just like the PSSAs. These big exams should be taken out of the school systems because its just to much to handle. Then on the other hand if you don't get a good enough grade you can't graduate all over an exam.It's just to much!
I am a proponent of getting RID of the ACT/SAT testing as a valid measurement of how a student will do in college. I am certainly an example of how inaccurate this test can be. I had A's and B's in high school but did very poorly on the ACT exam. It rated my potential performance in college very low, and therefore my high school counselor tried to talk me OUT of going to college (even though she knew my determination to succeed in doing so). Fortunately, a very good university approved my entrance despite my test score, and I completed college with a 3.78 cumulative. I am surely thankful that I refused to listen to that high school counselor.
SAT/ACT scores are the first "barrier" by which students are considered for admittance at most colleges/universities. Those who don't excel at that type of test are often excellent (not always of course) students who then must use clout or other means to be accepted. Some who are National Merit Scholars have never learned to study and have poor performance results in college. The test is an indicator, not foolproof. Get rid of it. (I'm a retired high school teacher)
I strongly support those colleges who are no longer requiring the SAT. The ACT, which is the test our students in Illinois are required to take, is just as corrupt! Just as others have stated, our students should not be measured on a number! I find it obnoxious that these exams carry so much weight as far as our students' futures. When is the educational system going to wake up and realize that our children are more than filling in bubbles. By the way, did I mention I also teach high school?
As a high school senior, the SAT provides me with a way of comparing myself via scores to the colleges that I desire to attend. It gives me a mechanism to know what my chances are via numbers.
However, I do not believe that the SAT is entirely fair. With 8 sections of Critical Reading/Writing and 4 of Math, people who score in the top percentiles are students who are best in English. Students who are more adapt to Math and Science are less likely to be as successful on the SAT specifically. I personally believe that the ACT is more fair; with 1 English, 1 Reading, 1 Math, 1 Science, and 1 Writing (which provides a subscore rather than a score that affects the student's composite score), it allows for students better in Math and Science to have the opportunity to show their knowledge to schools.
Ultimately, for the nation's most competitive colleges, I believe they have composed a solution to the problem: if submitting the SAT, top schools such as Harvard, Yale, and Princeton require 2 or 3 SAT2 subject tests so that students can show them their knowledge in specific subjects rather than just their aptitude.
I think the SAT is a load of crap. I am a horrible test taker and have severe test anxiety. I did pretty horrible on the SAT and not because I'm a moron. I managed to forget my ticket into the test, and my calculator and had my mother drop it off at my school in her pajamas. I was pretty much hysterically crying five minutes before taking the test. This was not an adequate gauge of of what I had learned through years of hard work.
I entered college while serving in the military, and had the SAT's waived. I completed both a bachelor and masters degree in aeronautical science. I am proof that the SAT's are not a measurement of aptitude, but a business to make money. I would urge a study of those who took the SAT's vs. those who have not and entered college, to see how each did!
If we all don't have the same access to tutors, education, and the secrets to the SAT, then the test is inherently unfair. We all test very differently, so how can it be a true measurement of how well you're prepared for college? I appreciate the fact that some colleges realize that the SATs aren't a truly standard gauge by not asking for the test scores for admission.
The SAT have no real baring on the future potential of a student. I did very poorly when I took it, but by going through a Community College I was able to transfer to a 4 year institution and recently earned a Master's degree in the end. So yes, the SAT needs to be scraped, and so does the ACT for that matter.
I got mediocre scores on those standardized tests. That would indicate that I would have mediocre performance in school. I did great in college, have a master’s degree, and will have my Ph.D. in May 2010. These tests do not assess what the testing companies say they do.
I am a senior in High School. I really think that the SAT's are geared towards certain people who have a different mind set to solve difficult problems. I have known some students who have not done well in school and have done great on the exam. However, I have known some top students struggle with it. The material on the SAT has nothing to do with what you have learned in school. Its how you can expand your perspective on the material. I feel that its extremely hard and it really puts students through a lot of stress. I feel so upset when the students put all their effort into the exam and the results are not forthcoming.
When you really get down to what the SAT measures....it's archaic and does more emotional harm to students. They don't need another road block to their academic desires.
ps: ACT is also widely used on West coast
Please don't show again that guy with "the only thing you need to know is 3, 4, 5"...He put the "5" on the wrong side of the triangle!!! Shame on him if that's what he teaches!!
All my daughters went to Scarsdale High school and they took the ACT. The test is shorter. If you don't like your score, you don't have to report it. ALL of the top colleges take the ACT. They have to when you think of it because students from other states apply to their schools.
I didn't like the SAT prep system and I talked my daughters out of participating.
They all went to great schools.
in canada (where we have a better education system) do not use any type of SAT system. we use our grades from high-school. higher your grades the better the university you will attend. simple as that.