American Morning
The Cost of College: Dream school, nightmare debt
Editor's Note: A new study suggests job prospects for this year's college graduates have improved slightly. That's a little bit of good news for students who now have to pay for that education. This week, our Alina Cho is looking into "The Cost of College." Today, she has the story of one young man who regrets his decision to go to a top-tier university.
(CNN) – For high school salutatorian Ryan Durosky, there was no question that he would go to his dream school, New York University. It's a name-brand school, but it cost him. Now, he's nearly $300,000 in debt, and he's not alone.
To be clear, Ryan does not blame NYU for his college debt, he blames himself for making the choice, and he believes the economic downturn played a role. He certainly did not expect to be laid off, especially so soon after graduation.
NYU tells CNN its advice for prospective students is to "plan ahead." College is an investment and people need to save for it. Also, they say, if you're in default on your student loans you should contact the lender and NYU's career center for help.
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Oh the irony. This guy has no clue about his own finances and he's has a business degree. First thing you learn in finance is about time value of money, and compounding interest.
Idiot. No other words.
What an idiot – ever hear of state schools? Jeez....
Hey Bill,
Ton tooting your horn yet? Sucks you went to an inferior undergrad and law school. LOL at top 4 law school. That means Columbia.
Oh boo-frickin-hoo. Plenty of us have college debt and are having a hard time finding jobs right now.
And for those who are acting like they're entitled to stop paying the loans because it's a decision they made at age 18 - grow up. 18 is considered a legal adult in our society, for better or for worse. If you hadn't been allowed to take out those loans, you wouldn't have even been able to get the education. And you're not 18 anymore, so there's no excuse to act like a child and throw a tantrum when you're expected to fulfill your obligations and pay back the money you owe.
The system isn't great, but blaming baby boomers and whining about it isn't going to change the fact that you're a dang adult now and you need to start acting like it.
The older generations on this board just don't understand. Back in your day, you could pay for college by working for a summer. We, on the other hand, are lucky if we earn enough money in a summer to cover books. I went to a T15 private university (think Duke, WashU, Northwestern), and I am 80k in debt from it. Our generation was told over and over again that this is the right choice, that this is the right decision by the Boomers. Yet, we get zero sympathy from you guys when we realize that our decision that we made at EIGHTEEN was not worth it. It is an insurmountable amount of debt for us.
Now, I am in law school. 24 years old. I am at a top four school ( one of Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia), and there is no guarantee I will even graduate with a job. Already another 60k in debt. I feel more responsible for this debt, but the undergrad debt was done without fully understanding the consequences. I hope you all realize that we CANNOT discharge this debt in bankruptcy. You can for mortgages, Why can't we for student debt? Two consequences:
1. We aren't going to pay your entitlements, sorry to say. We feel your generation has indebted us enough.
2. Students just are going to stop paying the loans. Plain and simple.
Everyone makes a good point. I actually started a website this April called White Picket College. And it's dedicated specifically to the issue of college financial aid for the upper middle class.
I've heard many stories like Ryan's, but I also hear many stories of the student being accepted into the dream college and the parents not being able to afford it. I receive letters of frustration from many parents because the federal government and colleges award free money to low income students. Thus, the middle class and especially upper middle class struggle cannot afford the dream college.
It's a situation that needs our attention. Investing in the right kids - from all income levels - is how the US will ensure a bright future.
The job I have now does not require a college diploma, much less a law school diploma.
I guess the lesson I take away from this is that my higher education was a complete waste of money.
I will not spend a dime on my children's education.
As a parent of a soon to be Freshman - we struggled with our daughter about her first choice of schools. We told her, no scholarship, no attending and NO co-signing student loans. After some serious thought (and reality sinking in) she took her second choice. Once she decided, she got an ROTC scholarship offer!! A guaranteed job after graduation in her career of choice AND no debt!! A 4 year active duty sacrific verses a 25+ year ROCK of debt around your neck?? Umm, no brainer. She will be able to purchase a home before she is 30.
Guys, the full article is available for free here, and is already being discussed by the NYU community as well as students with relevant experiences in these matters.
You may enjoy the full discussion at: http://listserv.org/threads/view/210
This is from Ryan's LinkedIn page: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ryandurosky
"Ryan Durosky’s Education
New York University – Leonard N. Stern School of Business
B.S. , Marketing & International Business , 2004 — 2008
New York University in Florence
Coursework in Italian language and business"
It looks like he studied abroad, which partially explains his extravagant debt. If he had also traveled around expensive Europe (which most student studying abroad are apt to do), I can understand how he got to 300K.
Nearly 300K for just a bachelors degree when he had a full ride to a different school. This is why student loans should only be given to cover tuition, room and board. Spending money, new clothes, transportation etc., money for these things should be earned.
Way to make that first big adult decision.
I bet they're calculating the 'total paid' at the end of his loan instead of the total due today.
If tuition was $20k a semester x 8 semesters (4 years), his amount due would be $160k. If he finances his student loans using the extended term option (30 years) and has a 4% interest rate, his monthly payment is $763.86 and the total amount paid at the end of the 30 years is $274,992.71.
John, 300K likely includes his living expenses *in Manhattan* for four years. On the Island renting a hole in the wall (one room, shared bathroom) will cost you upwards of a grand a month.
To Ryans credit he is not blaming anyone but himself. Still there is no way someone should have cut him that much slack over the course of four years. I know the underlying theme here is going to be 'College should be free' but the fact is he could have went for free, he just decided not to.
Why are kids racking up more debt?
Simple, they are going to school longer:
Kids coming out of high school are more poorly educated than in years past. I had the honor of being a teacher’s aid for an engineering lab in which a quarter of the incoming freshmen were taking remedial math and English. If High schools would lock down on Math and English and not on ethnic studies and sex ed kids might be better prepared for algebra.
You also have kids jumping around majors to 'find themselves'. I fell into this when I dropped one engineering discipline for another, cost me one year of school. Some of my piers 'tried out' three majors before settling. If you don't know what you want to do go to community college part time until you do!
Finally there is the fact that a lot of stupid kids try majors that are way over their head. I was by no means ever the brightest bulb in my Engineering courses but there were some who were not suited for college, let alone engineering. College has to stop being a developmental step for kids and instead be treated like an honor.
Another reason why they are racking up more debt is because they are not working; their 'job' is to be a student. My 25K student loan could have been a whole lot bigger had I not worked two jobs during college and three during the summers. No kids should be able to get a student loan unless they are working 15-20 hours a week.
Audrey,
You made a poor choice to attend law school at 49 years of age. It is common knowledge that law school costs $150k+ and that the legal economy was slowing. Unless you went to a tier 1 school and graduated top 25%, higher % if the school is ranked worse, then there was no expectation of getting a salary of $100k+. How did you expect to pay it back?
Ryan,
How the hell do you run up $300k in debt in 4 years? I attended an Ivy League institution and the cost was $45k + living expenses. Assuming it 20k living expenses a year I still would only make owe 260k. Every school offers financial aid unless your parents make an absurd amount of money. I ended up coming out with only 60k in loans and I took out extra loans to enjoy college. Please explain your accumulated debt.
Tuition @ NYU for an academic year is approx 30,000... How in the WORLD did this kid rack up 300,000 in debt?
30,000 X 4 =/= 300,000
This is why there should be a mandatory "managing your finances" course given to all students in high school. Even at a low interest rate of 3% over 15-20 years, Ryan would be paying close to a total of 400K. I'm sure he would have maybe given it more thought regarding which path he wanted to take with his future.
Secondly, who in the heck would lend this kind of money to someone with a 4 year degree from NYU? No chance of getting your money back, but of course these loans are usually "federal guarantee", so Ryan can just default and we tax payers will be stuck with the bill for his education.
His biggest mistake was probably living in a nice NY Apartment. One can easily spend $30,000 per year on that alone. But as a student, why instead did he not live in sub-standard housing, or just rent a room in someone else's apartment? I went to NYU years ago, and had more money in the bank when I finished, because I took advantage of great part-time work opportunities in Manhattan, and also some good investing in stocks. He needs to be more entrepreneurial about making money while in school, and more self-sacrificing about not living it up in Manhattan.
The cost of education is way too much, that no one can afford to obtain it. The universities are too greedy for the money. The American Dream can no longer be obtained. -D.Citrone-Sociologist-BA in Social Work, The University of Akron, 1987.
There are more than 6 billion (yes, billion) people on this planet hoping, praying, begging, and gnashing their teeth to be in the position of Ryan.
Even if he gets into a $500,000 debt or more for education, the center of the world for entrepreneurial spirit, invention, innovation, discovery, creativity, motivation and inspiration should be enough for him to earn more.
He's here in the USA for pete's sake. Does he not have the audacity, creativity, imagination, drive etc. to create wealth on his own, way beyond his debt?
Of all places, the irony of this student's life had to be in NYU, in the city with the biggest economy on the planet, in the so-called Empire State. Talk about a walking, talking, living, breathing object-lesson of a paradox.
Time for him to realize the true meaning of education as an investment.
Great story on the terrible student loan debt, but all this story does is expose the great debt we're all in for trying to get an education that everyone said we needed. Most of us will spend 30 years paying off this debt, just like Ryan, and there is NO SOLUTION in sight for us. There are some programs out there that dismiss student loan debt 10 years after you've been working in a community service or government job, but that's not an option for most of us since those jobs pay next to nothing to begin with. Even bankruptcy isn't an option because of changes in the bankruptcy laws that forbid student loan debts as being excluded from consideration. Yet despite all of this, despite the fact that education costs are rising, despite the fact that student loan debt is increasing across the country, despite the fact that more and more younger Americans are graduating with so much debt they'll never be able to accomplish anything meaningful in life, NO ONE IS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT. At the very least, the interest rate on the loans needs to be fixed to the rate of inflation, not the consumer loan market index. But beyond that, drastic action needs to be taken to make loan dismissal available for Americans in all walks in life, not just those that serve the community or the government. Its just another form of discrimination, and its an entire generation that is being discriminated against. Yet there are no laws to protect us from this. People wonder why we're spiraling down economically? This is one more reason why.
I can understand Ryan's concern as I too have a mortgage payment for my MBA degree. I am grateful to have a job that allows me to manage and get by.... but I have question on why does it cost so much to go school, public, private, undergrad, or grad school. The methodologies that are taught and the frameworks that are used are for the most part what was used in the 60', 70' and 80'. The only really difference in rising education expenses is cost of living and inflation. But they are not teaching us anything materially different. It would be interesting when I start a family and my son or daughter is ready to go to college 18 years from now.... how much will it cost just to get a bachelors degree, a half a million dollars – I am kidding. But you see the point, how much is too much especially when salaries are not keeping up with cost of living.
No offense, but why take on that much debt at age 52 for a law degree? Not a wise financial move at that age. Besides, this country has WAY too many lawyers now!
Although I have a college education, I'm beginning to think it's not worth the cost any longer. Much of my time was spent on 'filler' courses and learning 'theory.' Does a degree give you an edge? In some cases, yes; a degree gets your foot in the door, but again, the time and money doesn't seem worth it any longer. The exception, of course, is if you're lucky enough to obtain a scholarship or fund your education via grants. I'm inclined to tell young people these days to learn a viable trade or put a strong effort into being an entrepreneur. I Besides, I know too many over educated people that couldn't reason their way out of a paper bag.
The cost of tuition has skyrocketed well past the rate of inflation. I don't know why greedy university professors et al get let off the hook for their contribution to these ridiculous increases, especially when they expound socialist policies galore that would have the rest of us work for peanuts and to turn the nuts over to the government to hand out. That said, nobody is forcing anyone to take out loans in this amount. And Audrey, I'm sorry, I don't care who was hiring 4 years ago. It is madness to go into 200k in debt at 52 years old. The mentality that 4 years ago everything could be paid for so don't sweat the debt is exactly the same mentality that caused people to over leverage homes they likewise could not afford. We learned nothing about debt and margins and crashing from the great depression, which makes these university educations you are paying SO much for just about useless anyway.
I didn't want to graduate in such debt so I went 2 years into junior college. Not glamorous, but I was debt free 2 years from graduation making 8.75 an hour, as I too graduated in the last great recession (early 90s).
How is this even possible? He must have received no financial aid to run up that much debt. I wonder about his actual family and financial situation. Anyway, you'd think a business major would have more business sense.
If he is as smart and talented as one would think an NYU business grad would be, he'll be living a typical Manhattan life of luxury and conspicuous consumption before long, as Joe notes.
I will end up about $40,000 in debt from undergrad after transferring out of a Midwestern "dream school" at the prestige level of NYU back to my state's flagship university – a Big Ten school and AAU member where, I might add, I receive much more individual attention from professors in my chosen field (math), and the undergrads aren't all taught by postdocs just passing through. I plan on paying it off quickly by living at home for a year or two and working before pursuing graduate school in mathematics, which I'll get support for if my grades and resume haven't changed since I last checked.
Top-tier is what you make of it. The cream (almost) always rises to the top, and while that degree may give you a boost, you still make your own destiny.
I graduated from assumption college in worcester MA with a modest $25K debt. I spent 2 years taking prerequisites to enter a masters program in physical therapy at chapman university in Orange CA. I should of waited a year and reapplied after I was denied at the CA state school system which would have been cheap, but I was eager to begin grad school and get going with my life and did not fully understand the gravity of student loans. There was no one to talk about taking student loans. Only the student loan office was available for conversations, however their concern was on pushing over the paperwork pertaining to perkins, stafford and private loans for my signature. Now more than $110K in debt I can not imagine ever paying it off. I entered into education, working with special needs children, however I have been forced into working a full time second job in order to try and get a handle on things. But with my schedule of 25 years of payments, it is disheartening to know I went to school so long and ended up with a huge debt, unable to attain the financial well being I was promised or I dreamed of. I wish someone would of pulled me aside and explained just a little what student loan debt meant.
according to NYU website, the tuition is about $20K per semester not including room and board. on average it takes about 5 yrs to finish a 4 yr degree so $275K debt he has is about right.
he should have attended a Jr college or in-state university for first 2 years then transfer to NYU. he would have gotten the same degree and diploma at a half the cost.
also, if you are to spend this much, why not go to better schools, i.e. UPenn, Cornell, Columbia etc.
he had made a series of mistakes...now he has to pay for his own actions.
NYU is $53,000/ year with tuition + room/board (and even more for Stern/Tisch students, since their colleges are what make NYU such a name brand). I would know because I get to pay that for two more years, yay!
I am so glad this story is on CNN's homepage. To the other people commenting, yes, $200K+ of undergraduate debt is possible at a school like NYU.
I love how NYU's advice is to "plan ahead," as if it is possible for working and middle class folks to "plan ahead" to tackle $200K+ in student debt at age 22, or any age. NYU then recommended students in default contact the career center. The career centers at NYU, from the undergraduate level to the allegedly prestigious graduate and professional schools, are completely unhelpful. The only planning ahead that is necessary is planning to avoid schools like NYU.
My advice for prospective students is to go to a decent public school or a school that will offer you a big scholarship. Excel academically. Graduate with reasonable debt. Live your life without the burden. If you feel you absolutely must get a graduate degree to meet your goals, then, at that point, select one based on name and prestige, as well as the quality of its program. However, be forewarned, shenanigans universities like NYU try to play at the undergraduate level can be worse at the graduate and professional levels.
I graduated with a law degree from NYU, which was one of the biggest mistakes of my life. (People who do not know better think all lawyers are rich; that's simply not true.) Like Ryan, I struggled after graduation even though I graduated near the top of my law school class. This happened despite the fact NYU touts itself as one of the best law schools in the country.
In the fiercely competitive world of school rankings, NYU blatantly lies about its placement figures. The law school claims 98% of its students are placed in jobs by graduation. The figure, based on my observation of the fellow graduates I knew who were un- or under-employed, is much lower. It took me seven years to claw my way into a position I actually want. I know there are many stories out there like mine....
Poor Ryan. He made a bad decision and now can’t take a mulligan or do-over. I’m tired of watching people in the news who feel sorry for themselves for circumstances they chose by their own free will. He had a FREE RIDE scholarship! He turned it down. It was his choice, and now he wants someone (50% of the people in the country who pay taxes) to help him out. Wake up people. Freedom of choice equates to responsibility for your actions. Take some accountability, show some ownership for your situation; do something about it other than cry, beg, or complain. We have a problem in this country. The problem is not Republican or Democratic. The problem is the sense of entitlement our society is inflicting on one another. If we do not change our view points, moral fabric, and thought process, the foundation and principals on which this country was founded will vanish. Let’s stop pointing the finger at other people and do a bit of self analysis in our own mirror. I sympathize for your situation Ryan, but I do not feel sorry nor do I wish to carry your burden.
I have a hard time understanding how someone with a degree in business did not understand the amount of debt he was taking on or that he had no contingency plan. I understand that he didn't foresee the economic downturn that has occurred in our country, but did he never consider the possibility that other disasters could occur such as a crippling accident or catastrophic illness? Unless you know with absolute certainty that you will have no problem EVER repaying student loans you do not, under any circumstances, saddle yourself with over a quarter of a million dollars in debt just to get a bachelor's degree.
This grandma is having a tough time feeling sorry for this guy. You wanted the "prestige" school, Ryan. Now it's time to pay the piper. (Perhaps now you understand why some students are smart enough to go to state universities.)
Welcome to the world of almost every med school grad. After 4 yrs of school, debt will be > $100,000. Then 3-7 yrs of residency at $45K while working 80 hrs a week. Then, we get turned into the bad people for making so much dough. World is a pretty bleak place. This guy should have taken the full ride scholarship.
I can fully sympathize. I used to wake up Saturday mornings crying, and I was pulling in six figures a year. Student debt can feel so crippling. The day I started a "real" job, my net worth was NEGATIVE $180k. Not a great way to start out in life. I hope others listen up and hear so many of these cautionary tales.
The whole American system is broken. Just to put it in perspective, my friends in Ireland got PAID to go to college. And my year at Cambridge in England cost less than half of what I paid to go to USC per year as a California resident. If the Europeans can figure it out, why can't we?
Ryan is an extreme example of what students should avoid, but I have no idea how he could reach $275,000 in debt during four years of undergrad. NYC's tuition, books, and fees would only account for around $100,000. How does the math work, unless he spent it all on an extravagant lifestyle? People pay far less gaining a Harvard medical school degree.
When will people learn that a college degree is THE most overrated product out on the market in many circumstances? Don't believe the mantra that is thrown out there that college grads will make over $1 million more than someone who doesn't go. It simply isn't true and the College Board has been exposed on this fact. That's why they don't use that "statistic" anymore. Even professional degrees like a JD or MBA are overrated. If you are motivated and a hard worker you will make money irregardless if you have a degree or not. More people would be better off learning a trade like being an electrician or a carpenter. Electricians here can make upwards of $80/hr working overtime and with enough experience.
This isn't surprising. The Obama generation has been programmed to think that a degree will open doors and bring success. In my region, one year of college averages around $20,000. Most college grads I know are working entry level jobs and living at home. Twentysomethings really need to understand that they can't trust the government.
This is an unfortunate story. However I do believe that a lot of your issues have more to do with poor financial advising and/or decisions. Seriously, tuition at NYU is about 37,000 for the year, times 4 years that is roughly 150,000. Why are you nearly 300,000 in debt. I mean I understand you needed money for rent/living expenses, but twice as much, basically $40,000 extra per year seems a little excessive. I wouldn't say recent high school graduates should forgo their dreams of attending an IVY-league or a top school in the nation. I think that with proper financial advise and scholarships you could make your dreams come true. Furthermore, you were class saludatorian. Didn't they offer you some type of scholarship? I was class saludatorian and attended the University of Miami, which has similar tuition rates, with a 50% scholarship. Sorry for what happened to you, I just don't agree. I think there are other ways and I have many friend's who looked for ways to make it, and found them and they are doing just fine.
@ john: tuition and fees at private undergrad comes to about $40-50 grand per year. Then add annual room and board on top of that. Consider the location, Manhattahn, and the nearly $300k is pretty easy to get to.
Four years totaling $275k? That is over 68k a year! Annual tuition + dorm + food + books does NOT equal $68k. Sadly, this "news" item doesn't mention the cause for this exorbitant debt. But I suspect it was:
1. He spent over four years (not entirely clear from the interview)
2. He lived undergrad life to the fullest (SoHo loft dorm anyone?)
The numbers here do not add up.
This guy took out more than the cost of classes, way more.
That is just ridiculous. People just don't plan (or think).
It is easy to calculate how much college will cost. Data should also give you an idea of the jobs you can get and at what salaries. Public schools are fine; those expensive private colleges are just plain silly unless you have a daddy-warbucks or a heck of a scholarship.
Doesn't anybody watch Suze Orman or Dave Ramsey???
Deel bad for this kid but he shoulda gone to Penn State
P.S. Maybe Ryan DIDN'T "do without" during those years, which might be why his bill is so big. THAT, hopefully, was a good lesson of life too. The people who don't learn this lesson are the ones who run up big credit card bills and then also lose thei homes!
REMEMBER the lesson!
Student loans should be evaluated just like a home loan. If you're getting a degree that only pays $40,000 a year on average, you shouldn't be able to borrow more than $10,000. I have grown sick of the system allowing students to borrow money that they can't possibly repay.
I graduated with a BS and MS paid by my parents. My wife has a BS and MD paid by her parents. Neither of which was rich. No loans, just middle class parents at a state school.
Banks would't loan you $200,000 at age 52 with a POS job. Yet the government will. And when you don't pay it back, they take it from me in the form of higher taxes.
lol–He had a free scholarship?
Sorry, buddy...this debt disaster is on YOU.
Whose fault is that? No one made you attend a private school?
I attended a state university for underground and had no debt after graduation. In addition, I attended a top overseas school for my masters and accrued 20k in debt, of which 20% has been paid off within one year. You have no one to blame but yourself, my friend. Wake up to reality.
All four of my kids left college with enormous debt, especially the two who went to Marquette University in Milwaukee. The thousands of dollars of debt AND being broke all during college years while working jobs and going to classes are all the price you pay for the dream. But NOBODY will EVER be able to take away that education! My kids are all in their 40's now, have FINALLY paid off their debts, learned how to live on a shoestring and do without, and are happily into their dream jobs. So, boo hoo to anybody who can't think ahead to the days his loans will be fully paid! It IS the price, but ask my kids; it is WELL worth it!! Not everyone is born with a silver spoon in his mouth. College years are when you LEARN to "DO WITHOUT!" which is ALSO a valuable lifetime lesson. And no! You don't just walk into the "dream job" right after graduation! Like I said, my kids are all in their 40's now, though a couple have also gone on, with MORE bills, and acquired their doctorate degrees, which loans are ALSO fully paid now! Think ahead! Instant gratification is for infants!
You think that's bad? I have $350,000 in debt and rising, and my air mattress just sprung a leak.
Private loans are a whole mess of bad and ugly, but for federal loans (stafford subsidized/unsubsidized, GradPLUS, etc), there is income based repayment. I am getting my masters degree in social work at the moment and very, very few of my peers are aware of this!
When you enter repayment of your federal loans (private not included), you can sign up for income based repayment. This bases your required payment on your family size and income. So if you are making nothing, or very little, when you enter repayment? Your required monthly payment may be nothing, or $30, or $90... if you're making a lot of money, it might be several hundred, but you will have money coming in to accommodate that.
I will have roughly $100,000 in debt a year from now, but I am very much at ease knowing that if income is still very low between my husband and I, I will not be slammed with $1200 due every month. I vowed to never touch private loans–all my student loan money is from stafford loans ad well as graduate plus. Income based repayment is actually what pushed me over the ledge to continue with school, so I knew from the get go that private loans were out of the question.
I see a lot smart kids simply give up their dream to pursue a better education out of concerns of debts. I also know plenty of examples that students ran up big living expenses while they were in school on borrowed money.
Many people are either unaware of in denial about the fact that by the time they have paid off their principal amount borrowed in 10 or 20 years, they will have ended up paying two to three times the amount they actually borrowed! So if you borrow $200K for your education, the truth in lending statement may reflect the fact that the bank will eventually receive about $400K from you because of the interest!
I have two comments. Instead of "blaming" him for not knowing better, I would like to take a step back and look at the foundation on which this happened. Sure he is ultimately responsible for understanding "truth in lending" and also managing risk. However, I think lenders should be held partly responsible for the criteria used to finance someone. Just as some people cannot get a loan for a home or a loan for a very expensive home, I think lenders should say that they are only willing to finance an education that is within the student's means to pay off in a reasonable period of time. Then it should be managed closely to see if the student is borrowing to buy things beyond basic tuition and books to get supplies that he might be able to pay for out of pocket or might be able to get at a lower price if he comparison shopped.
My second comment is that I think students should be REQUIRED to learn how to master personal finance throughout their childhood as a central standard for school systems to address. In early primary school it can begin with basic lessons about not spending what you don't have and how it feels to be indebted. Later it can extend to studying the employment market, understanding how much certain majors and careers pay on average, how to create and stick to a budget, how much interest accumulates over time, and how to get best value on things like college books.
My local community college enables someone in Montgomery County Maryland to get a 2-year degree for less than $10K tuition (not including books and supplies). It is an excellent education and then one can transfer to a nice 4-year university, which is what the bachelor's degree diploma will reflect. In this community college, I was still able to participate in clubs, meet people to date, go to movies, participate in sports, etc. I strongly recommend this route for wise people who worry about long-term consequences of saddling themselves with heavy debt.
The reason he is in the position he is in is simple: vanity. He could have attended a state school and received a fine education. Just goes to show there is a big difference between book smart and street smart. I don't pity him at all. He knew what he was getting into. The "live now, pay later" mentality has got to stop.
The only people who have any business racking up that much student loan debt are students in professional degree programs that are practically guaranteed high incomes after they graduate. If this kid is lucky, after graduation he'll land a job as a waiter.
This year's cost for NYU was $55k including board and tuition. Assuming this brilliant gentlemen and his family did not save a single dollar for higher education. How are his loans $300k????????
This story is very a accurate portrayal of the amount of debt many students graduate with. American undergraduate education can easily amount to 40,000-60,000 per year in tuition, depending on where one attends. In addition, if you attend professional school, such as dental school, one can easily pay more than 60,000 per year for tuition and supplies. This doesn't even cover living expenses, or the mounting interest you have to pay to the bank. An undergraduate degree is four year, and a professional degree is usually 4 years. if you specialize, you will be in school for a long time, and pay dearly. However, the value of education is priceless, and I personally am comfortable with the fact that I am 200,000 in debt, doing a specialty professional degree, with great earning potential when I graduate in an interesting and challenging job. I would not trade my position for a 9-5 trade skill position, for instance, and no debt. It's all about what is important to you.
Wow – being so smart one would think you were better at math bro. Wait till NYU starts peppering you with calls for donations 1 year out of college...
I'd hate to be the bad guy, but he should have made better decisions. I went to a public university because I had a scholarship. I'm now in a private university and will amass close to $200,000 by the time I graduate. The difference between me and the guy in this story? I'll have "M.D." after my name. Bottom line, you have to make decisions today for your future tomorrow. Even in good times, a business degree of the bachelors variety won't usually get you a great job. You should only go into that kind of debt if there's a reasonable certainty that you'll be able to pay it off without completely sacrificing your quality of life.
My son was in the exact same situation....admitted to NYU with a relatively small scholarship compared to total cost, versus numerous other schools that were either public universities or gave larger scholarships. All were excellent educational choices. After putting the numbers on a spreadsheet, I'm glad that my son chose an excellent school that did not mortgage his future. And today? He's graduated and about to start a job!
I used my credit card too much and I'm in debt. I took on a mortgage I couldn't afford and I'm in debt. I wanted to goto one of the best schools in the country in one of the most expensive cities in the country and I'm in debt. The new American dream, living far outside your means and looking for some kind of "BAIL OUT"
I have almost $70K in debt for my undergrad and although I have a job, I can barely afford the minimum payments. If and when I pay this off, its estimated that I will owe almost $200K. Its pretty ridiculous, but as my dad would say don't consider this debt..this is an investment.
I have a four year degree from an out of state university and I've got about $125,000 in student loans. How can you rack that up? Well, you're young and the mentality is that you will get a job so paying for those loans will be a piece of cake. I totally agree that all the money I spend each month on loans could be put toward getting my own place and living my life. I'd give up my degree in a heartbeat to erase this debt. And the "but you've got a degree" rationale is total garbage. Employers want people with experience. I have yet to land a job where I can honestly say the degree was what got it for me.
I like the fact that the kid has said more than once that he didn't blame anyone but himself for the amount of debt he had incurred by his student loans. I think the colleges charge an offensive amount of money and they should be reformed.
OMG
My son just got accepted to NYU and will start in 9/2010. We have grants and scholarships in our favor. My son literally applied to over 50 scholarship programs and was able to get some free money after countless essays and hard work. I guess you really have to prepare. Unfortunately, most of us just go with the flow and have no idea what we are getting into. Thanks for the wake up call!
No undergrad degree is worth 275K. It's a shame that kids are so brainwashed by big name universities to pay outrageous tuition. They are told how their education is worth it while the reality of making lifelong debt payments is glossed over.
Its the glamour of NYC that area universities use to get students. You don't need to go to NYU to get that experience though. Move to NYC on your own, get a job and attend one of our community colleges much cheaper. Guess what? A lot of the same faculty teach both at community colleges and high private schools in the city.
Better yet, just move to the city, get a job and just live here for awhile without attending school to get it out of your system. Then, move back to your home state and attend community college even cheaper. Whatever you do, don't get conned by big New York City private universities and start you life out with crushing debt.
I think the 300k is the total, over the course of time, with interest. When someone goes to NYU (as I made the "mistake" of doing, for two years) one also has to take into consideration the cost of paying for room and board, which costs more than in most other parts of the country, especially compounded by being a student and not being able to spend a lot of hours working to support yourself.
And Joe, you missed the point of the article–he's not living in NY, just working here while he can and he's living at home. Not every job here pays bonuses, depends on what sector he's in.
True, he made a bad decision, but I too feel disappointed that certain people in this country really cannot go to the college of their choosing without paying for it, literally, and figuratively, for the rest of our lives.
The main problem with young people entering college is the complete ignorance of money and the budgeting of money, something of which secondary schools do not teach! Pubic education is a joke, or as the saying goes, you get exactly what you pay for, which in this case is nothing of real value. Young high school kids know nothing about how to save, how to budget, putting together working budget, how to invest, how to figure out what you can afford based upon your income vs your debt, how to understand a financial statement, how to understand a money contract, buying a car, a house, a line of credit.
$300K for 4 years? really? sounds fishy. That aside, I can understand wanting to attend your dream school, but you should be prepared to pay for it. otherwise, go where you can afford and chase the dream from there.
I'm sorry, but I don't feel even the slightest bit sorry for him. Going to university is no guarantee of success. It helps it greatly, but its not a guarantee. So, tough. Besides that, he graduated in the throes of the worst economy since the Depression and so it's not like he's being singled out for unemployment. Lots of people with degrees from prestigious institutions AND more work experience are also out of work. While he was in school he should have been taught (or tried to learn) how to think and not merely what to think. Anyone who knows how to think can adapt themselves to unfamiliar environments and succeed.
Or, his lack of employment could be intensely personal. All things being equal, people hire people they like, and maybe he doesn't strike people as likable. Whatever the case is, it had nothing to do with going to NYU. NYU is a great university. Not everybody who goes to that university, however, is great.
Ryan made some terrible decisions:
1) Who pays full tuition aside from the richest of the rich who's kids can't normally get into college?
2) How do you rack up $300,000 in debt for a BUSINESS degree no-less?
3) You cannot justify giving up a full-ride without assuming the consequences.
4) You signed up for the win or lose all New York lifestyle, you can't just break even.
Wow, I am a graduate of NYU, too, but I didn't graduate with that kind of debt. Of course, 25 years or so ago, when I graduated, tuition ws less expensive for starters. But here are some points I want to make to Ryan, and why I disagree with his belief that a place like NYU is only for the wealthy (as I was certainly not wealthy):
(1) I have a friend who graduated from NYU with $0 in debt. Why? Because his mother worked at NYU just so he could go to school there - for free.
(2) Other people also take jobs at universities just so they, too, can get the classes at no cost.
(3) I had little or no debt graduating because my aid was gift aid, I had a college work/study job and I purposely stayed out of an apartment situation while in school, instead living on campus.
I still think NYU is a great school, but I also think: loans are not the way to go, whether it's NYU or any school. Either work there to get the tuition for free, or keep your expenses way down as best you can during school, and avoid loans if you can.
There is no guarantee of employment in today's world in almost any field. A "loan" is really a trap.
I am currently a resident physician after graduating from a prestigious private undergraduate as well as medical school while on financial aid and need-based grants and I have to say that Ryan is a great example to learn from. Fortunately for me, I anticipated a large debt and decided to only take subsidized loans, work part-time, apply for every known grant/scholarship, and to live a very poor frugal life in college. No one forces you to pick what school you go to and no one forces you to max out your loans. I feel very bad for Ryan, but for someone who pursued and got a business degree, you would think he would be more money-savvy and have thought about this more. On the other hand, I also understand the lure of a prestigious school and a Manhattan-life and it is a hard choice for an 18 year old to make when they have minimal experiences with life decisions, salaries, and debt. It's definitely not NYU's fault, but there are plenty of people who survive in Manhattan without spending $300,000 over a few years. I feel that Ryan may have lived a bit "above his means" given his current debt situation. I hope he has a successful story in the end, but I do believe he is the perfect reality check for students everywhere. Don't make short-sighted decisions and dont' expect a "get out of jail free" card when you are an adult. If you are going to an expensive school in an expensive area, you're going to have to save somewhere. No more new clothes and stop eating out. A sense of entitlement is far from reality.
Maybe, Ryan should consider an Officer program in the United States military ? Many times, there are loan deferment programs available and in the meantime he would earn an livable income. I'm just brainstorming for this poor fella, but I'm not suggesting that Uncle Sam pick-up the tab for his very poor judgement. Graduate programs are also available via various Officer programs as well. Wishing him luck!
The mentality of 'I'm entitled' needs to end in America. You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Earn the rest and quit complaining. No one owes you anything.
I'm sure Obama will just raise our taxes more, to pay for all their bad debt. I mean really, its not THEIR fault they ran up the debt, right? It has to be the banks which loaned them the money. Its always someone else's fault.
Firstly, a 300k USD debt for 4 year degree at NYU is in the realm of possibility. A NYU MBA for 2 years is around 150k USD. The problem here is a question of risk. Ryan made a gamble and it will pay off. NYU is among the top 10 business schools. All he needs to do is to focus on his job and not on the debt.
I completely sympathize with Ryan, I know exactly what it's like.
I'm paying full tuition for my college (meaning I didn't qualify for ANY financial aid or grants) and it's hindered me so much. I was going to a decent school up in Maine and loving it, but after the first year and looking at my financial future, I realized that it wasn't logical and that I would be drowning in debt. So, I had to come home to an in-state public school.
It got me to the point where I focused on the price of a college and THEN looked at majors, to see what major I could choose.
By the time I graduate, I'm looking to be over $50,000 in debt.
I'm terrified.
I am a college senior and I think it is pathetic the amount of money that is needed to be spent on education. I mean seriously, college is a time when it should be not stressing about debt to the highest degree.
I personally think that in this case with Ryan, its not uncommon to see this, and personally I think that its pathetic that guidance either from his family and/or college were there guiding him. I mean, college education should not place an individual that far into debt. Ryan should have considered all possibilities prior to and planning for the future.
What I think is funny/sad are all these people that ran off to get MBAs – mostly from crappy online schools like University of Phoenix. An MBA is useless unless you get it from a top-tier business school. Anything less is *worse* than useless as it makes you look like a wannabe.
I have a Masters degree and I'm debt free....thanks to my decision to serve in the AF and take advantage of the GI Bill and other tuition assistance. I guess I'll live with the consequences of my decisions, so perhaps everyone else should too!
At least he has a job! I went to the same school. Same college, same major, graduated with honors, and I'm still unemployed.
Anyone who borrows money for school should take caution after hearing Ryan's story. I have about $100,000 of school loan debt with a monthly payment of about $700/mo and I can't find full-time work. I completely agree with Ryan when he admitted to Alina that he regrets borrowing money for school. Like Ryan, I don't feel like my education was worth the steep price tag in this economy.
We are forced to pay for others credit card debts, help them buy a brand new car, then a souped up street legal golf cart, help them buy a brand new house, help them pay for this and that, etc. etc. etc. You have debt then don't worry the government will force the tax payer to pay for you. No one needs to take responsibily for anything anymore. No matter what you do or what you cause you are the victim. When will it ever end.
JOE,
You are being extremely short-sighted. I think the day of mega annual bonuses has passed in this economy. And most of that goes to those with MBAs. Ryan only has a Bachelor's. With his debt, he will never be able to go back to school to get a Master's degree. It's easy to say it's a bad decision. But, seriously, when you have that student debt money as a student it doesn't feel like real money. At 18 years old, you are not calculating the consequences. You are too young and having too much fun. I think in the future we are facing $1000/month payments are going to hurt a lot for a long time to come. I think there are a lot of people in Ryan's situation. They bought into the mass delusion that education is always a good investment. At these prices, it's becoming harder and harder to support that argument and those of us who willingly got on board and really regretting it.
I don't see this as any different from those who contributed to the mortgage crisis by buying homes for which they couldn't afford to pay. Sorry, but no sympathy from me.
This kid turned down a scholarship so he will get no sympathy from me. Now he is whining? He knows what the per credit cost was – do the math (whoops, maybe he couldn't if he turned down a 4 year scholarship)
TOUGH on this kid. I went to NYU for my MPA and paid 35k for a two year, 60 credit degree. I knew what the cost was. I paid mine off. Now he can pay his.
It's astounding to me that the cost of higher education (public and private alike) has reached such a point that it's increasingly harder to afford, and thus can put people off the idea of going to good (or any) colleges in the first place. Sure, many say there is no price too great for an education, but how can we compete in any market when immediately upon being handed a degree, you're also handed debt that is the equivalent of buying a small house? And people wonder why the United States is ranked poorly in education compared to the majority of industrialized nations.
I am also an NYU alumni from 2008, and found myself in very similar circumstances – the main differences being I didn't have a full-scholarship to attend another school (NYU was the only school to accept me) and I DON'T regret my decision to go there, even with the 100k+ debt I'll be paying off for years and years to come. The experience of living and growing in NYC and the amazing friends I've made are worth every penny. But I do maintain that NYU should be held accountable for their rates – especially when I know for a fact that my money wasn't going to efforts to improve the NYU facilities necessary for my program or even to the salaries of my professors, but rather to help NYU buy more property abroad (Abu Dhabi, specifically) in order to create a more "global brand." And this is all in spite of the fact that a major contingency of NYU students wouldn't even be able to participate or take advantage of this new campus – apparently the UAE isn't a big fan of Jews or the LGBT community... but I digress.
Nevertheless, there has to be a way to offset the ridiculous cost of going to university that doesn't include the option of just "not going."
Please note he had a full scholarship to another, assuming less-reputable, institution. His reason(s) for choosing NYU makes sense, but not if he was aware, hopefully, of the amount of money he was borrowing to go.
I can say more, and I owe for undergrad and grad myself, but I can't fathom how an individual could find themselves in this situation. Did he seek some advice before making the decision to go and to continue to go to NYU?
So run up debt and you don't get a job and you are screwed.
Run up debt get a great job and now Obama will take your money and everyone who overextended themselves and got bailed out will scream at you that you should pay more in taxes. This is a loose loose proposition.
There is a study out there that UPS driver makes more than Doctor's in a lifetime. Guess what those UPS drivers also have way more deductions in a lifetime. Good degree – expensive, make enough money – higher taxes and can't deduct the interest on student loans. Higher education will go to the wayside in this country.
$275K for undergrad at NYU sadly might be about right. Per the NYU website current tuition is $20K per semester for 15 credits. So $40K/year for 4 years would be $160K. Add approx $30K/year for room/board/books/etc (also from NY website) and that is another $120K. So if the kid took out loans for everything he could get to the $275K number easilty
The thing I wonder is would the school allow a student to get that heavily in debt for an undergraduate degree. If they didn't advise him against this, they really did him a disservice. While the kid is ultimately responsible, it the the role of the university to educate students and guide them to make smarter decisions.
What he fails to mention is that tuition (plus additional costs associated with NYU) should only total 25-30K a year, at 120K for four years.
He doesnt mention if they are private student loans ... or what all "additional" money went to...
Odds are he went on a splurge using private student loans ...
Housing for college is a huge increase on the loan bill. If you can live at home and take classes, do it. You'll thank yourself down the line after you pay things off before most other people do like I did. Also your parents would appreciate the extra help around the house.
Another thing you can do is not go to school right away, figure out how much your tuition might be and work somewhere and save up. I paid half of my tuition from my own pocket before having to take loans.
It all boils down to living within your means.
I feel your pain, Ryan.
I have upwards of $100,000 in debt after graduating from a top university. My loan payments are in excess of $800 per month and I too am struggling to make ends meet. I have been taking a train and a bus to work (as well as carpooling with employees) for almost a year and am hoping to soon purchase a used car. I wouldn't say i regret my decision, but I am endlessly frustrated and find myself feeling hopeless and suffocated some times. Hang in there, bud, there's others like you out there
business loves when its new hires are coming out of the starting gate with massive debt over their heads, it makes for a more pliable workforce, a captured audience that will think 3 times before rocking the boat. in the rest of the civilized world education is free in order to not encumber the recent grads with a massive debt that forces them to take the first opportunity that comes their way and stay put silently for fear of losing the ability to repay their debt, like an indentured servant. so you tell me again how free we are and how great our system is, because I'm just not seeing it.
What is the purpose of college? The experience, the reputation of the school, or to be trained in an area that enables you to get a job? I work at a university that costs $50k a year. My job is wonderful and I am making a good salary. But I got it by going to a state school. The CPA exam was no respecter of alma maters. I graduated 7 years ago and have about $5k left of debt.
It would be interesting to find out what school it was that he had the full scholarship with. In today's ,common sense needs to trump prestige. He could have gotten the same Bachelors degree for free! People have got to stop thinking that just because I went to School XYZ, I'm going to make tons more money than I do with a degree from ABC. The longer people believe this fallacy, the longer colleges will go on overcharging.
Too bad he didn't take out his student loans a little later. Under the new Income Based Repayment plan, your student loan payment can't exceed %15 of your income and the rest is forgiven in 25 years if it isn't paid off. In the new student loan bill, it's 20 years and %10. It seems like people can take out whatever loans they want now and not worry about bankrupting themselves.
Its not just young people with student debts. I am 52 and just finished law school. I owe over $200,000 and with interest adding daily, I will never be able to pay it off in my lifetime. I live and work in a small town and circumstances have changed here since I entered law school. None of the law firms are hiring new lawyers. I had to open my own office just to work.
300K in debt just for undergrad? Doesn't sound right. Wish the story could be more clear
With all due respect to Ryan, he surely must have known how much he was borrowing and what the total could be. I am wondering how anyone can run up $275,000 is college debt in four-years. I'm sure he is depressed by this, but why should he be "let off the hook" for this? This is just one bad decision after another.
He is in NYC. He will be able to get annual bonuses equal to or greater than this if he keeps his eye on the ball and stops making bad decisions. Everyone has to make sacrifices and now it's his turn.
Ryan, keep working and in a very short time $1,000 a month payment won't even be noticed.