American Morning
Protesting airport body scanners, privacy group sues TSA
Flying the day before Thanksgiving?
Better be prepared to wait. Airport security lines may be getting even longer.
Outcries over the full-body security scanners continue with passengers, pilots and flight attendants choosing to opt out of the revealing scans for pat downs instead. One group calls for a day of protest against the scanners on Weds. Nov. 24, the busiest travel day of the year.
Another group says the Transportation Security Administration should remove the scanners from all airports. The group, the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), a non-profit privacy advocacy group, is taking legal action against the TSA.
Marc Rotenberg, executive director of EPIC, says the TSA should be required to conduct a public rule-making to evaluate the privacy, security and health risks caused by the body scanners. He talks with AM’s John Roberts today.
“The agency doesn’t have the legal authority to put these device in the airports," Rotenberg tells Roberts. "It was a very big step they took when they decided to make the body scanners the primary screening technique, and that’s what we’re objecting to."
In the full video, Rotenberg explains why freedom of religion and the Fourth Amendment should be examined in this case.
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I just flew home and went through both the full body scan and a pat down at the airport. The TSA officals were really nice and the pat down was not bad, I actually enjoyed it and now I am requesting a pat down at all my stops.
Why is everyone complaining, its like an airport body massage at no cost. People pay thousands of dollars at salons and massage parlors and they still don't get what you can get at the airport. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Sandy
Aviation companies and employers of pilots, flight attendants, schedulers are required to check the TSAWeblist each day in order to comply with the TSA program. EACH DAY – pilots, employees etc are TSA checked. The Noflylist, the selectee list and a checked list. This is documented in the company files and on a flight release. Then someone tell me why the hell do crew have to go through this machine?
It was bad enough when last week I had to go through it. I am 62 yrs old, took my shoes off and wore very little clothing (its hot in Arizona!). I was directed to the cubicle and asked to raise my hands crufiction style and spread my legs....I was so shocked and so tired (it was 6am) ..I did this so as not to cause a fuss. Had I know that this big goon of a man was watching my naked photo on the other side...I would have been even more disgusted. Then....when he was finished, I was asked my another agent to take my hair down!!! So this machine can look right through me but can't detect anything in my long blond hair...give me a break! By the way..the other agent could hardly speak English and I had to ask her to repeat what she was asking. I looked at their faces and they were smug and they were condescending. I will know look for airlines whose terminals DONOT have these machines. US Air you are off my list. Violated isn't the word..how dare a government do this to their seniors. The more I see the images...the more I feel violated!
I'll Drive then the only one touching me,is ........ me
I will no longer fly anywhere. Thx Big Sis. Thx mr. terrorist
Oh wait.... They may blow up a car on the highway. then i'll have to go thru TSA Pat downs to DRIVE MY FREAKIN CAR.
Clearly it is a charged issue. It is true that flying isn't a right. It is also true that our constitiution has provisions that would appear to be against this. However the same could be said for a DUI checkpoint. Personally I am outraged by this. I do not believe it is necessary or right. Using the europeans as an example isnt helping anyones case either. While lawsuits are one way and opting out is certainly going to make things difficult, it isnt going to stop these people. I recommend you contact your congressman and make your feelings known.
And Steve, who said that everyone else sees the US as spoiled children? There's the door pal. We try and take our rights and responsibilities seriouly here. Get with the program or join another team.
I object to the use of the full-body airport scanners for many reasons. First, radiation exposure is of very serious concern. Second, these devices are too invasive. Third, this type of procedure is illegal under the American Constitution which forbids unreasonable search and seizure. Fourth, the use of the scanners as a primary security device at airports was rejected by Lawmakers in Washington. Fifth, the scanner cannot detect all types of explosives. Sixth, the American people should not be subjected to invasive pat-downs when not suspected or guilty of wrong-doing. Considering all the hype about terrorism, the American people must be careful not to destroy our Constitution. The Founding Fathers and signatories to the American Constitution were wise beyond that which their humanity would suggest. Let us not curse their good works, but endeavor to ensure the longevity of our Constitution. We must not let unseen forces seduce us into giving-up our freedom.
I love the way the TSA INSISTS that the images cannot be saved or printed... yet... how many of these images have we seen time and time again on the internet or newspapers, or TV? Regardless of whether or not they are "anonymous", the images CAN be saved, and CAN be printed. How do I know? Look at the pic on this web site's article! Ridiculous.
And I fly 2 -3 times per week (am not an airline employee), and I do not want to be subjected to radiation exposure or fondling. And now it's a CRIME if I refuse either one? I put my stuff in the x-ray and walk through the metal detector.
The minute some terrorist thinks of a way to hide an explosive device in her tampon in-use, we will be totally screwed. Literally. All in the name of "security".
Yes, the terrorists have won. They really have.
Vanessa has stated it as well as it can be in a short reply. Having spent 20 years in the military, and the rest of my 64 years working in or for the government I have to agree are rights are being reduced to negligible shadows of their former selves. We need to demand that our rights not be trifled with in the name of hyped up attempts to "save" us from various threats, real or imagined. Life offers no guarantees. If you need someone to think for you then you need to take a long vacation in one of the other despotic wonderlands around the world. Me? Let me take my chances to be free from what appears to be our eventual loss of control over anything the Government can dream up to protect ourselves from. And, Oh, by the way, those trying to protect us are not much smarter than we are, and do their protective functions so they have a job. Go figure!
I think the American people are not so much afraid of these machines as they are admitting that we have lost to the terrorists when we give up our freedoms. They are angry and we have reached the breaking point. This will continue as long as Ronald Reagan's adage holds true. "These things happen when the cost of aggression is cheap."
Until we have leadership that is willing to admit where the threat originates and pocesses the courage required to eliminate it, our freedom will continue to be bartered and sacrificed to keep us from bodily harm. This will continue without regard to the damage it does to not only to our economy and the psyche of our country but the entire world.
I for one, feel that if the terrorist threat has risen to the level that we must spend many billions in uncontrollable, spasmodic defensive measures, alter our ways of life and our everyday routines, it is time to let those who would harm us or our way of life that there will be a terrible, terrible price to pay.
It's one thing to show tolerance and quite another to passively trade your freedom for peace. I predict the long awaited Backlash is about to begin.
Clay
I am 67 years old. I was subjected to body scan at SFO. I felt violated, just like a rape victim. My heart was racing and I was in fear of what was coming. The agent was polite, but she didn't need to fondle my breasts (which are large). The look on the faces of the TSA and others (it definitely was not private) made me ashamed. If I develop cancer within the next few months or years, I will know it came from this scanning, since I am in perfect health now. I want to seek retribution for my bodily desicration and public humiliation. Please inform me of any class action suit, as I, as a nurse, sincerely feel that this body scanning could cause an anxiety attack in someone with atrial fibrillation and trigger a heart attack or, worse, death.
The TSA has gone too far ! I am a 60 year old woman who had a very humiliating experience at Chicago's O'Hare several years ago.
(I had my shoes off and was waiting for a female to wand my bare feet) ? I told the young man that I needed to use the restroom immediately and to get a supervisor. he would not allow me to leave . I was very angry that I was delayed for no reason and was clearly ill. I again told him to get his supervisor right away. He told me to stay put or he would see to it that I never flew again. This young man was about 30 years of age. It appears that both the supervisor and the female attendant were confused about my delay and "ordered "me to go ahead. I ended up leaving my underwear in the airport's restroom. Very unpleasant experience. We are still the customer and citizen flyer .Things have just gone too far. The TSA can be very authoritarian and offensive. They need sensitity training at best.
There need to be measures to ensure the flying public's safety- but taking away basic privacy rights in order to fly is just too much. I also
think that females and children should be totally excluded from these procedures- and some other means of screening be used.
I'm curious to know when the did citizens of the US became the enemy of the state? Patting down your groin parts is not going to reveal bomb making material in your shorts or box cutters for that matter. The US continually closes the barn door after the animals have gotten lose. Being pro-active in our security instead of this knee-jerk reaction is where we need to be. Also where does it say I will allow someone from the TSA or the Federal Gov't touch my private parts before I can get on the plane? A law suit against the Federal Gov't of this magnitude is by no means frivolous. This is a violation of our civil liberties as US Citizens. It's in the Constitution and the Amendments. Stand up and use it or we all lose it.
Please tell me that these reports are not legit! I'm astonished that some of us, Americans, have forgotten the horrible breach of security on 9-11 and want to fill our court systems with frivolous lawsuits. And others want to impede the security screening processes at airports by being "jerks" to the TSA employees and thus, delay all of the other law-abiding passengers with their tyraids.
In my opinion, it is a priviledge to fly commercially. And with that priviledge comes some requirements on our part to keep our nation's skies secure. For every move towards a more secure air travel experience comes a reduction in our individual freedom. It is a price that most of us are willing to pay...certainly I am.
If one doesn't want to follow a more secure process, then simply don't fly. As for the pilot's association, most airports have a designated lane for airport and airline employees. Wasted time, evidently, isn't the issue. Johns Hopkins has issued a report finding that the smidgen of radiation emitted during the body scan is not detremental to our health. And even if it were slightly detremental, there are a number of companies looking to apply new technology to replace the full body scans, especially for those who are more exposed than most of the "flying" public.
Come on folks! Can we not be occasionally inconvenienced for the good of all???
I have been watching this issue for some time now because my children fly unaccompanied several times a year to visit their Father. My first issue is I will never knowingly expose my children to radiation on purpose. They say that the amounts of radiation is not dangerous. But I know better than that. They told soldiers that agent orange was not dangerous.... LOOK HOW BIG A LIE THAT REALLY WAS !! Now TSA has an alternative screen for people that don't want to expose themselves to poison.... But can you imagine someone touching your children in the areas that we teach them NO ONE should ever touch them in??? From day one we teach and train our children someone touching you in your genitals is wrong, and they should tell someone right away. Now they want us to let strangers foundal our children in the name is safety and security. How is this right. When are they going to figure out that the next Terrorist plot will more than likely have nothing to do with planes ! And how many more violation of our rights and privacy are we going to have to live with?? I mean come on didn't our Founding Fathers fight and die so that we could have the freedoms they keep taking from us.... NOW they want to SEXUALLY MOLEST the american people........ The men that built this country, wrote the Constitution, and died to make a place where people truly had freedom would be very disappointed in what we have done to take it all away from the citizens.... I can tell you the first person that touches my children at the airport will be brought up on molestation charges !!!!
I was very impressed with how professional the TSA staff conducted themselves. This macho hunter didn't want them to touch his "junk". How petty can he be? Air travel is "public transportation. If he does not want to follow the rules that protect the flying "public" he can drive, take a bus or train, or a charter flight.
I do think that pilots that are US citizens should be exempt from body scanners if they have proper identification.
After 9/11 every commercial airline pilot in the U.S. was subjected to an extensive background check including finger printing. Upon successful completion of this background check each pilot was issued a new style ID card that contained their information on a data strip on the back of the card along with a photo on the front ( much like a credit card). After all the expense to conduct the background checks these ID cards are good for one thing and one thing only. They allow the pilot to receive a discount at the airport food court. It serves no purpose
in bypassing security which leaves one to believe the whole process was a waste of time.
Saw the piece about Mr. Tyner this morning. Amazing that he had his cell phone recording the incident. I think when you buy a ticket today you know you will be screened/patted down. Whether the body screen is safe or not, I don't know, but I am sure Mr. Tyner knew the rules when he purchased his ticket.. And I am sure if any of his family was hurt doing a crash he would be camping on the lawyers door to file his lawsuit. I think Mr. Tyner just needed his 15 min of fame. Maybe he can get some help from Balloon Boy Dad. I am not a fan of TSA but seemed in this recording, they handled themselves very professionally.
Apparently this guy is more concerned with someone seeing or touching his “junk” than some fanatic blowing his plane out of the sky. He’s obviously a pampered crybaby who’s way too accustomed to having things his own way. He can’t imagine why “he” should have to put up with all this unpleasantness.
I'm also appalled by people wanted to sue TSA which is controlled by the government. We are already spending enough useless funds for this recession and now you want to clog courts and get more government money that we don't have because you a bunch of prudes!
It makes me so proud to be American when people think the way you do! No wonder the rest of the world looks at us like spoiled children!
If you do not submit to body scans or pat downs you should not be allowed on the plane. Flying is a privilege not a right. They have been doing pat downs in europe for decades, get over your insecurities.
I use to travel for living and for the ones that only travel in the USA and you decide to explore the world, be ready for a full body pat down! They are a lot more serious about this in Europe and we are just starting here.
If this pat down prevents the airplane to blow up, I'm all for it! The prudes take your cars and drive everywhere and stop clogging the security line at the airport. In other words, grow up!
Hi all,
It is possible to sue the US Federal Government but you would need deep deep pockets to do it. This is where it would be most worth it. The US Federal Government is taking our rights as citizens away and the incident at the San Diego airport is an excellent example of a violation by the US Federal Government of the fourth amendment. This amendment is just one of the amendments concerning our rights as citizens to privacy. The fourth amendment says: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
What gets me is the part of 'upon probable cause and reasonable. I would strongly suggest Janete and John take this seriously. I and hundreds of other business travelers fly every week. Are you sure you want to take this revenue away from the airlines at this point?
Maybe there should be special flight for those passengers and pilots that do not want to be scanned and regular flights for those that would rather be safe.
I do not want to be on a flight with anyone who has refused any type of screening. All unscreened passengers can fly together on "screening free" flights and the rest of us will feel a lot safer on "fully screened" flights.
Why do we need these scanners. We can all just get tatoos on our forearms that match our ID's. It is 1939 again, and for those who can see it, get out now.
To the TSA workers, you should be ashamed, and for you no excuse will be tolerated as it was not tolerated for your predecessors in Germany.
Here in Santa Fe, NM–as across the world from Paris to Mumbai–we are fighting cell towers and the electromagnetic radiation they pour on people 24/7/365! Research has shown that even within the FIRST YEAR, people near towers develop cancer. See FULL SIGNAL for research info. See http://www.WhyFry.org to sign our petition if you care to save our small, adobe town! And save yours!!!!
The reality is this whole opt out day nonsense is an lp.org ploy to dictate their agenda onto a largely ignorant and foolish populace. Just like Nazi Germany, lp.org operatives are hard at work taking choice away from you under the guise of safety, freedom and privacy concerrns.
So, the TSA "claims" the X-ray machines are safe? What a total lie that is. Did the FDA "approve" it for safety? The FDA is one of the corrupt agencies in the U.S. Their "protection" is sold to the highest bidder. Don't believe any of them.
People need to quit the whining. So you go through security, boo hoo. If something was to happen on a flight you same whiners would be going after the government for not doing more for security, especially if it involved a relative! How about you quit crying and start supporting security efforts?
TSA now adopting neck-licking anti-terror screening; warns body cavity searches could follow on behind. http://bit.ly/aOd93i
As an American living abroad, I fly 'home' 3xs a year to visit family; tho I have yet to be subjected to the choice of body scan or opt out, I'm sure the next time I fly I will have to make that choice.
I agree with the majority of writers here who object upon medical grounds, violation of our constitutional rights & the child pornography laws these scans are violating. Myself, I will not allow my body to be subjected to any radiation to prove I'm not carrying a bomb, I am innocent UNTIL proven guilty and demand to be treated as such. Nor will I stand meakly and allow a security officer to grope me in places which anywhere else would constitute sexual violations.
I realise my actions may cause holdups at the checkpoint, however, if we don't stand together in objecting to this latest threat to our freedoms, we may as well throw in the towel and follow the flock of sheep who joyfully accept the restrictions placed upon us since 2001's Patriot Act under the guise of protecting us from the terrorists who lurk among us.
I am so offended by the TSA's activities that I refuse to fly, I take trains EVERYWHERE. I resent having to take off my shoes and belt, I resent having all my stuff turned upside down in the search and I refuse to submit to a full body pat-down or a full body scan. The TSA is crazy if they think we will willingly submit to this insulting form of invasion of our privacy. Mark Montgomery NYC, NY boboberg@nyc.rr.com
I found the comments on the article rather refreshing. That is, all except Marcia Suiter and Ronvan.
Marcia, enough people have already addressed your nonsensical response. Please fly often, and go through the scanners and pat-downs as often as you can. Even ask the agents whether you can do it again, for their training and practice, to violate the traveling American.
As for Ronvan, (an excerpt from comment posted is below)
"I am convinced that the U.S.A. will be destroyed from within! Everyone screaming about their "rights... It is going to be our "rights" that destroy our country."
Ronvan, please get on an alkaline diet to free your brain from the free radicals that are clogging up your thought processes. Please do this immediately before you engage your mouth to utter one more ignorant word. Also, turn off the television PROGRAMMING, so the brainwashing will stop, and your new thought patterns from that alkaline diet will have a chance.
It is the very passive, apathetic response to the Patriot Act and many EO's, to name a few things, that has gotten Americans in their present predicament of being radiated like lab rats and frisked like criminals. Our "rights," as you labeled them are what is the glue that makes America America. That is why millions flee to this country. Our Constitution guarantees these G-D given "rights." It is people laying down, not proclaiming and protecting them (our rights), that will kill this country, NEVER the standing up for them.
Returning from a trip to Kauai, after being full body scanned, I was patted down.
Fully up into my crotch – 6 times – 2X front bottom up, 2X pelvis down, 2X back side up. Each time ending with him running his hands over my cock and balls again and again I'm sure the guy was getting off on it – just his job you know.
And of course they found nothing but my genitals.
I'm now saving money for a GulfStream G450 – no more public transportation.
It amazes me that our government hasn't implement the advanced screening machines that use gamma ray technology rather than the intrusive x-ray machines. The gamma ray machines can electronically fingerprint known substances considered as a threat without the revealing the details of the person being screened. The machines are safe and expose the passenger to less radiation than what would be received by flying for 10 minutes at altitude in a common passenger flight. A manufacturer in the U.S. currently is supplying the airports globally with this technology. While it is costly, maybe it is time we embrace this technology as well.
Personally I don't mind flaunting my package in the backscatter
porn scan – but that's because I am unusually well-endowed! I can understand the rest of you having concerns about your "privacy."
I am a single mom and work as a stripper it is no surprise i got pulled in to the line for the body scann. I oted out and went thru a humilating grope fest. You can judge me all you want buyt your not in my shows so you should only hear this
IF THAT PERSON TOUCHED ME WHERE I WORKS AS A STRIPPER 5 BOUNCERS WOULD HAVE BEAT THEM AN INCH OF THER LIFE
TSA GROPED ME AND SEXUALY MOLESTED ME- I THINK I KNOW WHAT THAT IS.
On my trip back I will not tolerate again and I am not going thru the bodyscanner. I was told on the plane that women wearing muslim close only get patted on the head ad neck maybe I get a scarf
If they really thought people were a threat and wearing explosives, would they really be touching and squeezing passengers? I DON'T THINK SO! Why aren't they protecting the passengers who are standing in line? Why aren't they wearing bombproof gear? Why aren't they using robots and doing the pat downs in a Bomb proof room? This is a joke and away to condition us to give up our freedoms, to humiliate us AND to exercise power over WE THE PEOPLE, violate our 4th Amendment rights and they are doing with the TAX money WE pay THEM! UNBELIEVABLE!
What will be next? Mandatory invasive surgery before boarding and full strength body x-rays?
it,s high time someone sues this irritating idiots
What has this world come to, perv scanners? Anyone who wants to work for the TSA shouldn't be allowed to. Hideous invasion of privacy in the Land of the Free. Israel which has a real terrorist problem, says they are useless and doesn't use them. So what is the point?
Is it true Wikileaks will be releasing Body Scanner pics to the web? If they do how can TSA explain this. Does this mean some TSA officials are also working for wikileaks? How would wikileaks have gotten these pics?
TSA to turn normal citizens into new millionaires?
Make sure you file a complaint with the police department if you feel molested during your pat down. This will protect your rights should the TSA employee be arrested in the future as a child molester or a sexual predator. Should a report be filed and the individual that did the molestation actually be found guilty, you may be able to sue the police department and TSA for exposing you and endangering your children for failure to catch this predator.
The legal risks to local and state police departments for closing a case on someone who is later found guilty due to a future arrest is not something to be taken lightly.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-02-01/news/os-tsa-security-myspace-orlando-20100201_1_tsa-spokeswoman-sari-koshetz-lewd-myspace-page
If you or your child was groped by said agent, and you filed a complaint with the Police Department after the incident at the airport, you may be entitled to an extremely large settlement.
When you opt out, and experience what you may believe is a molestation pat down make sure you ask for a police officer to be called and file a complaint immediately. Follow up to make sure you have the Police report number. Protect your legal rights now. Create a record and a paper trail showing negligence in background screening and investigation follow up. The odds that you are being violated are greater than winning the lotto?
Are we "people" or "Sheeple"?It's amazing to see how passive people are about being bullied threatened poked prodded by these so called protectors of our safety. I think the terrorists have won by just causing us to be inconvenienced every time we fly!
Marcia,I think you need to do some research on this subject. It is a blatent disregard for your civil liberty,privacy and Health. There is absolutely no need for such invasive and dangerous procedure's. This was put in place to raise fear,contain and obviously generate money for the companies that make this equipment.Wake up,read up.Who are the real terrorists!
I was asked to go through a scanner at the cincinnati airport yesterday. I asked who would be viewing the image. They told me a male! NO THANKS! I opted out. The least they could do is have women view women and men view men.
Why are people up in arms about the scanners? Because the words of our Constitution still mean something to some of us: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."
Why am I against scanners? Because I think I should not have to allow government agents to take a nude photo of me in order for me to board a plane to go on vacation, visit my grandparents, or take a business trip. Because I know that if I opt out of the scan I will be subjected to an intimate, up close and personal touch session with a government agent. Because it has not been proven that the radiation from the scanners is safe. Because I think effective intelligence, not security theater, is what is needed to keep us safe. Because I object to children being photographed nude. Because I object to all of us being treated like submissive cattle and criminals who must spread our legs and raise our hands high above our heads in order to prove we're worthy of boarding an airplane. Because I hold the 4th Amendment of the Constitution dear. Because when we give up our dignity we degrade ourselves as human beings.
Because if we allow our own rights to be taken away in the name of protecting us from terrorists, the terrorists have already won, whether or not they ever successfully carry out another attack.
It can be said Hitler did it for the greater good and all wanted to do was protect his country. Is this the path we are headed down? Are we already there?
Most people don't even think about this but in my opinion the US has already lost the war on terrorism, why? Well every time we give up a freedom in the name of being protected our country becomes more aligned with their ideology of suppression of the people. The US is on the verge of becoming police state and the people seem content to let it happen.
Marcia, Your husband and you are both idiot slaves! Enjoy the raping.....
Marcia,
I don't know what your husband's job has to do with anything. Is he an expert in radiation and does he have direct knowledge of the equipment in question and the amount of radiation it emits? Has he studied the effects of cumulative radiation on the human body? Or are you just one of those people who treats doctors as if they know everything? If you want to go through the scanners, feel free. I'm concerned with not only my health, but my privacy and my liberty. Apparently you're not concerned with any of that. You're exactly the type of unconcerned, apathetic citizen our leaders are counting on.
Well, if Marcia's husband said they are ok, and he examines people who fart too much for a living, I'm sold.
Then again, scanners do violate child porn laws, violate the 4th Amendment, violate the concept of innocent until proven guilty, and they do have dangerous radiation is clearly a cancer risk. That Marcia does not denote the difference between Millimeter Wave and Backscatter X-Ray machines shows that she and her husband are ill-informed and can go back to recommending gastric bypass.
I am convinced that the U.S.A. will be destroyed from within! Everyone screaming about their "rights". Groups, attornies, etc., "rewording" or trying to convince everyone what our forefathers "actually meant" when they wrote the constitution! Today we argue about everything and try to sue everyone at a moments notice. Look at TV. Commercials pushing "pills" with warnings that if you walk, talk and breath, it might not be for you. Car commercials that give you the impression that items are "standard" when they actually wind up costing you a monthly payment. And of course it is their "right" Criminals who are sentenced, found guilty, and 20yrs. later are still appealing the decision, because it is their right! And on & on. It is going to be our "rights" that destroy our country.
I have a knee replacement and have only been able to go through the scanner one time. I loved it!!!!!
The next flight I took, was a full body pat down because the TSA has done away with the wand. That was very invasive and in front of a window that not only the people in the security line but the family members in the waiting area were milling around were watching.
I can't believe that people are so up in arms about these scanners!! My husband is an internist/gastroenterologist, he doesn't see what all the hub-bub is all about.